Really? I've found I can really struggle again the turn 2 Thought-Knot, turn 3 Smasher. I think I might also be attacking it from the wrong angle in a lot of games, as I try to go after Tron before Temples, which seems not as good. I've only played it once since adding back Squadron Hawks to chump - is that the game plan you use? Just chump them until you can Wrath and then Ranger into our game plan?
Last night, I lost to it 1-2, getting game one through Crucible lock, losing game 2 to Needle, into Chalice, into Smasher, into Ulamog, (I still had the out, but he flashed All is Dust, I think this data is just warped because he had an absurd god hand) and then losing game 3 since Wayfarer couldn't keep them off of value lands long enough to stop the rush.
Unless I'm already on top of them and I'm confident I can keep the wayfarer engine going I never go out of my way to disrupt their torn lands. Board sweeps, o ring effects on Karen, and proclamation is how I've been winning, also, you weren't playing hawks?
No. They were gone to make room for more late game threats and then flex slots that I was never happy with (Ayli, BW God, Thraben Inspectors, Kami of False Hope.) After seeing your success, I brought them back. This is my list as of right now, with the extra big stuff and Wayfarers in the side:
Do you go out of your way to break their Eldrazi Temples?
Kami of False Hope won me my first game of infect 2-0 when i first picked this deck up and had probably played it twice before that match. Only removal i have MB is 4 Wrath of God, 4 Path to Exile, and 1 Blessed Alliance so i went into the game expecting to lose, but paired with 4 Martyr of Sands and 4 Ghostly Prison i found out as long as i get a early Kami of False Hope i can stall them till i can slam a Prison down then Wrath and usually be in the clear. Prison and Kami also helped me against GR Tron
on a more specific note does anyone other then me run crucible of worlds paired with 4 GQ and 1 Tech Edge?
@BoBoCTiberius: i swear i see you in every other modern thread that i play lmao Do you still play soul sisters as well?
I run Crucible and 4 Ghost Quarter and love it. I've moved away from Kami, though. And yeah, I keep Sisters on stand by in the bag at all times. I really like gaining life.
What enchantment deck are you talking about? The one that kills through Form of the Dragon? I've never struggled against that one and I think Austere Command is probably the better call.
I'll be interested to see if it allows you to cheat on mana. If it does, it's a snap include. If not, it's probably still okay to include. I'm very interested.
Really? I've found I can really struggle again the turn 2 Thought-Knot, turn 3 Smasher. I think I might also be attacking it from the wrong angle in a lot of games, as I try to go after Tron before Temples, which seems not as good. I've only played it once since adding back Squadron Hawks to chump - is that the game plan you use? Just chump them until you can Wrath and then Ranger into our game plan?
Last night, I lost to it 1-2, getting game one through Crucible lock, losing game 2 to Needle, into Chalice, into Smasher, into Ulamog, (I still had the out, but he flashed All is Dust, I think this data is just warped because he had an absurd god hand) and then losing game 3 since Wayfarer couldn't keep them off of value lands long enough to stop the rush.
Unless I'm already on top of them and I'm confident I can keep the wayfarer engine going I never go out of my way to disrupt their torn lands. Board sweeps, o ring effects on Karen, and proclamation is how I've been winning, also, you weren't playing hawks?
No. They were gone to make room for more late game threats and then flex slots that I was never happy with (Ayli, BW God, Thraben Inspectors, Kami of False Hope.) After seeing your success, I brought them back. This is my list as of right now, with the extra big stuff and Wayfarers in the side:
Really? I've found I can really struggle again the turn 2 Thought-Knot, turn 3 Smasher. I think I might also be attacking it from the wrong angle in a lot of games, as I try to go after Tron before Temples, which seems not as good. I've only played it once since adding back Squadron Hawks to chump - is that the game plan you use? Just chump them until you can Wrath and then Ranger into our game plan?
Last night, I lost to it 1-2, getting game one through Crucible lock, losing game 2 to Needle, into Chalice, into Smasher, into Ulamog, (I still had the out, but he flashed All is Dust, I think this data is just warped because he had an absurd god hand) and then losing game 3 since Wayfarer couldn't keep them off of value lands long enough to stop the rush.
It's so close to being good, but I think the difference between 5-6 mana isn't huge, so you'd still want Sun Titan to make sure you get the trigger at least once. Sun Titan can also hit a land or Honor of the Pure for an alpha strike. Devoted Crop-mate is just as likely to hit the card when you need it as well, so you might look at that. All that being said, Return to the Ranks still seems like the most efficient way to buy back a Pridemate. Creatures that do it as an attack trigger have the chance to generate serious value, but if you absolutely need the creature, you want to make sure you get it as soon as possible.
With the announcement of Serra Ascendant (major shock for me; I never thought they would reprint her), Auriok Champion and Archangel of Thune in Iconic Masters, I think we just reclaimed our mantle as the cheapest established budget deck in the format! We might get a little influx of new folks in the thread as these cards get hit in price, so I'll be going over the primer to make sure it's as up to date as possible. If you think anything, in particular, is missing, let me know!
He's best when he tutors Serra when you're in the right life total, but can be crucial to making sure you have a Sister in play when you start throwing down 5-drops that really want Sisters in play. He's not amazing, but he's worth his slots.
Those videos are so fun to watch. The salt on that Death Shadow player's face is why we do what we do. Great job!
I'm going to borrow your tactics and main some Ghostly Prisons over my Kamis and see what happens. I'm also cutting down to one Titan and will just use Orzhov Charms to protect it from exile better.
To everyone: I'm on a three color build and can't decide: Should I main 2 Wayfarers and side extra big mana spells (Blood Baron/Elspeth/an extra Titan) or do the reverse? I feel like Wayfarer in the main gives me a chance against Tron and lets me assemble Emeria faster, but maindeck big things makes it a lock that I have a way to close out game 1. How would you folks approach that?
I'm a little new to this deck. Can someone explain the logic behind Infiltration Lens to me? I imagine the dream is to put it on a big Ajani's Pridemate and get way ahead while they have to chump block, but that seems definitively win more. What function does it serve again removal heavy decks like Jund and Abzan where the synergistic draws of Sister into Pridemate can't be relied upon to consistently win games.
What sideboard cards can I play to help me out vs GWx Combo Company decks and Valakut? Here's my current sideboard.
You're on the right track with Mindcensors and Suppression Field for company. Pay No Heed or Repel the Abominable have been good against Scapeshift decks for me, as well. Hallowed Moonlight can stop both decks at some level (since they can't Pact for the Titan.)
Agree on Mirran and Thalias as solid options, though Militant is a little weak. Anything that doesn't have resistance to K-Command is a tough sell for me (I'm also not sure just keeping them off instant and sorceries in the yard is enough.) Eidolon is an interesting thought. It either eats a removal or makes them play fair. Unfortunately, they are able to curve into a hand that can hurt us badly pretty easily, which may make it not as relevant a card to bring in.
Go wide is absolutely the plan against Jund. BGx decks are also why I recommend using a 22-23 land count and having some late game finisher, a la Archangel. These are resistant to a good number of their removal and get us back in the game if they come down late enough for them to be low on removal (Archangel dodges literally every removal spell Jund runs except for Terminate or Maelstrom Pulse, both are which are run in much lower numbers than Push, Bolt, and Decay, from lists I've seen.)
Rest in Peace is a mandatory side board in them, even if it means siding out a Lingering Souls or two. Blessed Alliance is typically strong against them because they don't really play irrelevant creatures they can sac off, so the worst you get is a Confidant, which is still a fair trade. Celestial Purge is also very valuable against them.
Even if you bring in all those, it still makes sense to me to bring in the Leylines if you can find room. Grain of salt on this, because I don't play the deck (I've just played the matchup 100 times if I've played it once) but Jund players probably should not side out Liliana of The Veil against us. Our creature count is always low enough to where that -2 is "kill our best creature" and the +1 wrecks our hand Leyline or no. Granted, Last Hope is much better against us.
I just think the majority of games I've lost against them come way more from a resolved Liliana than anything else. Adding to that, a Turn 1 Inquisition into turn 2 Thoughtseize is pretty much game over for us as it will take whichever sub-3 mana threat we're keeping (which we can't resolve until turn 2) and then the Ranger, Spectral or the Archangel.
@BoboCTiberius I agree about the 3 / 4 mana difference. Being able to cycle it does make it worth looking at, but you pretty much always have a target for oring like effects so I wouldn't really want to cycle them except in a few edge case matches.
I think that's especially true in MonoW, where you don't have the Orzhov Charms for removal and want the option of recurring through Sun Titan.
I had a rough go with logistics last night, too. Scooped a game where they surgical'd Wrath game 2 and I didn't shuffle it in back in game 3. We didn't realize it until I let him cast V-Clique twice and target me despite landing the turn 0 Leyline. I need to get my head right before I do the last couple PPTQs, because I have been scrubbing to get back in the rhythm of the deck. I'll get there, though.
I agree that D-sphere isn't the best option, but it's nice to know that I can and cast it and not die. The flash on Cast Out is relevant, but the difference between 3-4 mana is huge. I cannot think of a time where I've missed hitting 3 on time, but I've definitely spent games waiting a few turns to hit that 4th mana. If I'm running well, I won't be using it to wipe a creature and if I do, it'd be tokens when I know they can't answer it. 4 mana to kill a bunch of big, cheap beaters is what I have Wraths and Verdicts for.
I haven't played Living End since it started using the new creatures, but that match up always seemed like a walk for me.
The Titan deck is really difficult for us, since it gets bigger than us so quickly but can wipe us out. I've always flirted with running a lens with Pridemate, but it seems rough in a heavy K Command meta. Definitely excited to hear your results. Playing around Olivia is a nightmare for us, as her ping just kills a lot of our team or lets them just steal a giant creature so quickly. Hopefully that player isn't also running the new lili, because then the ping becomes outrageous to play against.
My favorite card is Serra Ascendant. It's so limited and restrictive in the decks you play it, but getting it online just excites my inner timmy so much.
I run Crucible and 4 Ghost Quarter and love it. I've moved away from Kami, though. And yeah, I keep Sisters on stand by in the bag at all times. I really like gaining life.
What enchantment deck are you talking about? The one that kills through Form of the Dragon? I've never struggled against that one and I think Austere Command is probably the better call.
No. They were gone to make room for more late game threats and then flex slots that I was never happy with (Ayli, BW God, Thraben Inspectors, Kami of False Hope.) After seeing your success, I brought them back. This is my list as of right now, with the extra big stuff and Wayfarers in the side:
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Squadron Hawk
1 Sun Titan
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Orzhov Charm
3 Path to Exile
2 Wrath of God
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Detention Sphere
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2 Mistveil Plains
1 Swamp
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Shambling Vent
Do you go out of your way to break their Eldrazi Temples?
Really? I've found I can really struggle again the turn 2 Thought-Knot, turn 3 Smasher. I think I might also be attacking it from the wrong angle in a lot of games, as I try to go after Tron before Temples, which seems not as good. I've only played it once since adding back Squadron Hawks to chump - is that the game plan you use? Just chump them until you can Wrath and then Ranger into our game plan?
Last night, I lost to it 1-2, getting game one through Crucible lock, losing game 2 to Needle, into Chalice, into Smasher, into Ulamog, (I still had the out, but he flashed All is Dust, I think this data is just warped because he had an absurd god hand) and then losing game 3 since Wayfarer couldn't keep them off of value lands long enough to stop the rush.
With the announcement of Serra Ascendant (major shock for me; I never thought they would reprint her), Auriok Champion and Archangel of Thune in Iconic Masters, I think we just reclaimed our mantle as the cheapest established budget deck in the format! We might get a little influx of new folks in the thread as these cards get hit in price, so I'll be going over the primer to make sure it's as up to date as possible. If you think anything, in particular, is missing, let me know!
I'm going to borrow your tactics and main some Ghostly Prisons over my Kamis and see what happens. I'm also cutting down to one Titan and will just use Orzhov Charms to protect it from exile better.
To everyone: I'm on a three color build and can't decide: Should I main 2 Wayfarers and side extra big mana spells (Blood Baron/Elspeth/an extra Titan) or do the reverse? I feel like Wayfarer in the main gives me a chance against Tron and lets me assemble Emeria faster, but maindeck big things makes it a lock that I have a way to close out game 1. How would you folks approach that?
You're on the right track with Mindcensors and Suppression Field for company. Pay No Heed or Repel the Abominable have been good against Scapeshift decks for me, as well. Hallowed Moonlight can stop both decks at some level (since they can't Pact for the Titan.)
Rest in Peace is a mandatory side board in them, even if it means siding out a Lingering Souls or two. Blessed Alliance is typically strong against them because they don't really play irrelevant creatures they can sac off, so the worst you get is a Confidant, which is still a fair trade. Celestial Purge is also very valuable against them.
Even if you bring in all those, it still makes sense to me to bring in the Leylines if you can find room. Grain of salt on this, because I don't play the deck (I've just played the matchup 100 times if I've played it once) but Jund players probably should not side out Liliana of The Veil against us. Our creature count is always low enough to where that -2 is "kill our best creature" and the +1 wrecks our hand Leyline or no. Granted, Last Hope is much better against us.
I just think the majority of games I've lost against them come way more from a resolved Liliana than anything else. Adding to that, a Turn 1 Inquisition into turn 2 Thoughtseize is pretty much game over for us as it will take whichever sub-3 mana threat we're keeping (which we can't resolve until turn 2) and then the Ranger, Spectral or the Archangel.
I think that's especially true in MonoW, where you don't have the Orzhov Charms for removal and want the option of recurring through Sun Titan.
I agree that D-sphere isn't the best option, but it's nice to know that I can and cast it and not die. The flash on Cast Out is relevant, but the difference between 3-4 mana is huge. I cannot think of a time where I've missed hitting 3 on time, but I've definitely spent games waiting a few turns to hit that 4th mana. If I'm running well, I won't be using it to wipe a creature and if I do, it'd be tokens when I know they can't answer it. 4 mana to kill a bunch of big, cheap beaters is what I have Wraths and Verdicts for.
I haven't played Living End since it started using the new creatures, but that match up always seemed like a walk for me.