This card represents blue very well, so it is appropriated to fill a slot even if it is duplicated with M14.
Personally, I don't like this card, because you spend one card (itself) and three mana just to recover the spent card and get a new card. Very little advantage at CMC 3. At CMC 2 it is too good. A design question.
There are standard decks that play it as a 4 of... 3 mana to go up a card is perfectly reasonable in almost every standard.
I think it's best as a SB card. It kills and puts your opponent behind in the life race. I think you could even use it against G/x devotion on the play to kill off a mana dork. Now if only RDW got a new tool to use against Mono-Black Devotion, especially with Drown in Sorrow loaming around the corner.
The card is only bad in one matchup and even there you can still shoot down tokens eventually. It has plenty of targets in every matchup outside of UWx decks and will be an auto main deck 4-of in RDW.
People don't decide to just not run any main deck removal because it happens to be bad against Verdict decks. That would be dumb.
On average how likely are you going to draw the card in a situation where Aetherling is not just as good i.e how often do you draw it before you have 9 mana? Unless you run quite a few, I find it hard to believe that it could have such a profound impact, especially when they run disruption.
2 out of the board. Aetherling does nothing to stabilize while Assemble literally brick walls them until you win. You get to draw cards after they Thoughtseize you. The deck happens to draw a lot of cards.
The difference is that you need to already be winning for Aetherling to be good, where Assemble can turn a creatureless board and active connections into an auto win (while also being 2-3 less mana).
If I ran Aetherling out of the board, I honestly don't know if I side it in. If I've gotten to that point in the game in that matchup, I'm already winning.
I could agree on uwr vs mono black, but I would not say that Esper trumps UW in the mirror. Esper has a stronger focus on spot removal, which is almost always dead against g1 against UW. UW's manabase also allows you to run mutavaults, which are great against control. Strictly better may be wrong, but I still stand by the fact that UW is currently a much better "catch all" in a diverse meta, which is what the OP is implying their meta is.
Agreed, it really depends on the makeup of the Esper deck. Are they running Elixir (do they do that nowadays)? How many Downfall's vs. dead removal spells are they running? And yeah, in an open meta, UW is probably the best (not to mention cheapest) call.
I think UW splash red is kind of narrow. Yes, assemble is good against monoblack. But most UW control lists are already really good against mono black. They simply have more card advantage than thoughtseize can ever rip. Splashing red in your mana base just so you can play a couple of win cons post board that are hard for black to interact with is not good. You could just put in Aetherling since it will actually win you the game faster and they also have no good ways to interact with it.
Counterflux for the UW control mirror is similarly narrow. ESPECIALLY post board they will know what you're up to, and board in as many threats as possible. Additionally, in practice, you will find that while you may wish to save your counterflux for their elixir/win cons, what will you ACTUALLY do when they rev for 9 and you only have counterflux in hand? Not use it because you want to save it to counter elixir? News flash: Even if they can't win the game, you can't win the game either if they get really far ahead. So this whole supposed "edge" in the control mirror is likely to result in lots of draws rather than straight up wins. I'm sorry but a deck whose game plan results in draws is not competitive.
Additionally I think this plan is bad because in the UW control mirror neither of you have any way other than detention sphere to interact with Jace4 when he's ticking up (okay, mutavault, but if you both have one then the defender with Jace4 wins). So Jace4 is also effectively a win con which means your plan to counter all his threats is not good.
The red splash just makes you even weaker in the Esper matchup because Esper doesn't care about counterflux, especially post board. They are just going to thoughtseize it before you can counter their threats, and then your mana base is as bad as theirs and you have nothing to show for it. Esper lists also traditionally runs tons of threats, but I've been looking at Esper lists a lot lately and there are many, many shades of Esper, whereas there are only 1-2 different styles of UW(r) control decks.
I actually think ATL is a really weak threat and is almost always worse than just dropping elspeth and making tokens or hitting the murder button. ATL takes eons to win, so if you are already losing it is not likely to stabilize you fast enough, especially in a format where evasion and protection creatures are all played in spades.
You've never resolved an Assemble against MBD. They can race Aetherling. They straight up can't race Assemble after a T4 wrath. They have one creature that Assemble doesn't completely negate in Spectre. Aetherling does nearly nothing to stabilize where as they could have active Connections and Erebos going and still never catch up to Assemble. Demon does not interact with Assemble favorably if they choose to leave some in.
Against esper, yes, the value of Counterflux is greatly diminished, but against UW, what threats could they possibly bring in? They run 5-6 ways to win the game in the main (if you count Jaces) and 0 in board.
UW is just better overall. Your manabase is more stable and you have a lot of card draw which will help you recover from thoughtseize/duress. People don't realize the value of having untapped mana every turn until they play 3 colors and die to their manabase.
Nah. UWR is infinitely better than UW against MBD as it has access to the same card draw effects as well as assemble out of the board. Esper and UWr also trump UW in the mirror due to Thoughtseize and Counterflux respectively. UW is obviously better in a lot of matchups due to it's mana, but that is heavily meta dependent. Calling it strictly better is wrong.
I've been playing UWR all season, this is the list I used to win this past FNM at my store if it helps at all (18 man tournament ranging from semi-competitive to competitive).
You definitely want to shore up your mana base a bit. I don't think we have the luxury of playing mutavault in a deck that plays Counterflux. I would also play all of the shocks if you have them.
As someone said, if you're splashing red, you're playing Assemble. Its too incredible against MBD not to at least board 2-3. (I was maining one before I shifted to the elixir build.)
Has anyone explored a list running Boros Reckoner? It's very good against RG Devotion which I feel has been horrendous for me.
Nombos with counterspells and Supreme Verdict. It also gives a target for their removal which would have otherwise rotted in their hand. It's amazing against RG monsters, but I'm pretty sure it's actively bad against devotion. They'll just sit there and play Garruk and bury you in CA.
This is the list I've been running almost unchanged since the beginning of Theros, and very similar to the list I ran pre-Theros (couldn't afford Snapcaster/Resto).
It's felt pretty strong, as I've managed to split in top 4 at every single FNM at an admittedly semi-soft LGS. Where you were saying r/g is an awful matchup, mine feels more like 40/60 or something like that, certainly not good, but winnable. Esper, however, feels incredibly lopsided. (I did just replace an Assemble with the second Aetherling in the SB, so that may change things.)
Do you ever feel clogged with the number of threats you're running? How has Assemble been against Esper? My experience with it has been incredibly underwhelming when matched up with their threats. Would Jace 5 really turn the matchup around significantly?
This list is also slanted towards my LGS where aggro is relatively popular, hence why I'm valuing syncopate over dissolve and izzet charm/essence scatter over additional general/slower counters.
Having had a blast of a time piloting American over the past couple weeks, I feel like two questions need to be answered:
1. Why did Esper have such a huge showing over UWR at Worcester?
2. If Esper is good enough to have game against aggro, something I previously believed UWR excelled at, then why play American over Esper when Esper gets better cards to dominate the control matchups?
If esper actually is good enough to beat swarm, I really don't think that there is a point to playing American. Every match feels like an uphill battle as they're accomplishing essentially the same task with a 1 mana thoughtseize as I hope to with a 4+ mana syncopate.
That should work, since they both trigger at the same time, you just let the Biovisionary trigger resolve before the sacrifice trigger.
It also combo's pretty hard with Master of Waves. Winning even more than ever.
If you really like the connections, Kiora's Follower could double as ramp as well as card draw.
There are standard decks that play it as a 4 of... 3 mana to go up a card is perfectly reasonable in almost every standard.
The card is only bad in one matchup and even there you can still shoot down tokens eventually. It has plenty of targets in every matchup outside of UWx decks and will be an auto main deck 4-of in RDW.
People don't decide to just not run any main deck removal because it happens to be bad against Verdict decks. That would be dumb.
2 out of the board. Aetherling does nothing to stabilize while Assemble literally brick walls them until you win. You get to draw cards after they Thoughtseize you. The deck happens to draw a lot of cards.
The difference is that you need to already be winning for Aetherling to be good, where Assemble can turn a creatureless board and active connections into an auto win (while also being 2-3 less mana).
If I ran Aetherling out of the board, I honestly don't know if I side it in. If I've gotten to that point in the game in that matchup, I'm already winning.
I'm 7-0 in matches and 14-2 in games in the matchup. It's probably the best card in the format against the deck. It's better.
Agreed, it really depends on the makeup of the Esper deck. Are they running Elixir (do they do that nowadays)? How many Downfall's vs. dead removal spells are they running? And yeah, in an open meta, UW is probably the best (not to mention cheapest) call.
You've never resolved an Assemble against MBD. They can race Aetherling. They straight up can't race Assemble after a T4 wrath. They have one creature that Assemble doesn't completely negate in Spectre. Aetherling does nearly nothing to stabilize where as they could have active Connections and Erebos going and still never catch up to Assemble. Demon does not interact with Assemble favorably if they choose to leave some in.
Against esper, yes, the value of Counterflux is greatly diminished, but against UW, what threats could they possibly bring in? They run 5-6 ways to win the game in the main (if you count Jaces) and 0 in board.
Nah. UWR is infinitely better than UW against MBD as it has access to the same card draw effects as well as assemble out of the board. Esper and UWr also trump UW in the mirror due to Thoughtseize and Counterflux respectively. UW is obviously better in a lot of matchups due to it's mana, but that is heavily meta dependent. Calling it strictly better is wrong.
4 Steam Vents
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Azorius Guildgate
7 Island
2 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Elixir of Immortality
4 Azorius Charm
2 Last Breath
1 Essence Scatter
2 Syncopate
3 Counterflux
1 Turn // Burn
4 Detention Sphere
4 Divination
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Gainsay
2 Last Breath
1 Pithing Needle
1 Essence Scatter
2 Negate
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Wear // Tear
1 Warleader's Helix
2 Assemble the Legion
You definitely want to shore up your mana base a bit. I don't think we have the luxury of playing mutavault in a deck that plays Counterflux. I would also play all of the shocks if you have them.
As someone said, if you're splashing red, you're playing Assemble. Its too incredible against MBD not to at least board 2-3. (I was maining one before I shifted to the elixir build.)
Pithing Needle/Negate? I doubt that they're beating you with just creatures resolving.
Nombos with counterspells and Supreme Verdict. It also gives a target for their removal which would have otherwise rotted in their hand. It's amazing against RG monsters, but I'm pretty sure it's actively bad against devotion. They'll just sit there and play Garruk and bury you in CA.
4x Azorius Charm
2x Essence Scatter
3x Izzet Charm
2x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Steam Augury
3x Syncopate
1x Thoughtflare
2x Turn / Burn
3x Warleader's Helix
Enchantment (4)
1x Assemble the Legion
3x Detention Sphere
Land (26)
4x Hallowed Fountain
6x Island
4x Plains
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Steam Vents
4x Temple of Triumph
Planeswalker (4)
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x AEtherling
1x AEtherling
1x Assemble the Legion
1x Counterflux
1x Dispel
1x Essence Scatter
1x Gainsay
1x Glare of Heresy
1x Izzet Staticaster
3x Last Breath
2x Negate
1x Pithing Needle
1x Wear / Tear
This is the list I've been running almost unchanged since the beginning of Theros, and very similar to the list I ran pre-Theros (couldn't afford Snapcaster/Resto).
It's felt pretty strong, as I've managed to split in top 4 at every single FNM at an admittedly semi-soft LGS. Where you were saying r/g is an awful matchup, mine feels more like 40/60 or something like that, certainly not good, but winnable. Esper, however, feels incredibly lopsided. (I did just replace an Assemble with the second Aetherling in the SB, so that may change things.)
Do you ever feel clogged with the number of threats you're running? How has Assemble been against Esper? My experience with it has been incredibly underwhelming when matched up with their threats. Would Jace 5 really turn the matchup around significantly?
This list is also slanted towards my LGS where aggro is relatively popular, hence why I'm valuing syncopate over dissolve and izzet charm/essence scatter over additional general/slower counters.
If esper actually is good enough to beat swarm, I really don't think that there is a point to playing American. Every match feels like an uphill battle as they're accomplishing essentially the same task with a 1 mana thoughtseize as I hope to with a 4+ mana syncopate.
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—Lanxal