I agree that Glory doesn't see enough play. Blanks spot removal (and pretty much all of red's removal), makes creatures near unblockable, and can be activated as an instant. Also, the fact that it has a Hebrew promo is 2legit2quit.
It would highly affect standard. Break? I don't know, but it would for sure get banned in Modern. Added to the list above, also gets Thalia, which would become a deck for sure, Recruiter - Thalia... Bear in mind, this card allows you to run 1-2 of other cards, so long as you run 4x recruiter you can always have near immediate access to the others.
That extra 1 mana matters quite a bit, plus a single R is much easier to splash than [manabb[/mana].
Recruiter is pretty daggum fantastic. Most played cards in highly competitive metas have low CMCs and low P/T due to preferred early game control and aggression. Recruiter tutors out one of those, while leaving behind a cute little body. Yeah, it would be in almost all the top decks.
How has no one said or noticed Outpost Siege? It is Chandra's 0 ability every single turn, with the option to have a mode that destroys when you are running tokens. I mean... This card is nuts.
I have said it before and will say it again, Gaddock Teeg. Shuts down opponents things while working with your things. Best deck you can build to stop all of the other powerful decks in your meta.
A well-built Captain Sisay deck also applies. Toolbox decks are amongst some of the best decks vs. control/midrange decks. Also, I would run Wheel of Sun and Moon over Rest in Peace. Invokes less hate from the whole table, and doesn't screw yourself over.
Agreed, and likely run both (RIP and Wheel). More chance to draw one, and the reason I suggest RIP is the usefulness with Helm of Obedience. That way, you can combo off and win while shutting an opponent down.
A well built Sisay deck is just silly good (I actually suggested it last page). One of my buddies runs a stax edition of it, very consistent and has answers to each deck built in, just tutors them out and wins from there. It being a stax deck, it is also naturally resistant to other stax decks. Sisay definitely works here.
Both Teeg and Druid run no shortage of counters. I can't imagine Hermit Druid is going to win through a turn two Suppression Field or Cursed Totem or Rest in Peace without having a nature's claim, or similar answer in hand, it absolutely needs that answer in hand, because Teeg's next play is only going to solidify the wall of hate. To suggest that Teeg can't pose a significant threat to Hermit Druid because of Druid's ease of finding answers is problematic, because it ignores the fact that you can't win through those cards, which means they are far from harmless. And as much as both of these decks love toolboxing, Teeg has more room for the situational hate, and his situational hate is stronger, even if most of it (but not all of it, Containment Priest) has to be played at sorcery speed.
The key for the Teeg player is to keep things cheap (under 3 cmc when possible), build for redundancy, and learn what cards best shutdown which decks. Sharuum can't combo off through Torpor Orb or Hushwing Gryff, and will likely fold to Kataki, War's Wage. Peacekeeper, and Martyr's Cause break voltron lists in half even through hexproof, Suppression Field/Cursed Totem/Linvala stop Azami, Lady of Scrolls in her tracks, Winter Orb and Hokori, Dust Drinker (and Teeg himself) kill control decks dead. The rest of the board will often thank you for dealing with what they perceive as an emminent threat (unless you played Teeg/Hokori/Winter Orb/Torpor Orb, then they'll hate you). Once you untap with hate, protect it. Tutoring for Sylvan Safekeeper, Saffi Eriksdotter, and Sterling Grove after a Suppression Field or Peacekeeper + Teeg causes plays to scoop on the spot.
Winning can be a bit of a challenge. I like Altar of Dementia, but have also done variants of survival lark, and alpha swings with Mirror Entity. You'll figure something out.
Don't really get Ghastly Conscription. It's clearly meant to be for multiplayer but wouldn't you just rather have Rise of the Dark Realms? Instead of a bunch of 2/2s which unmorphing that would be even more mana intensive than the extra 2 cost for RoftDR?
Huge difference between 7 mana and 9, even in EDH. 9 mana is just an astronomical cost, very difficult to hit without a good control/ramp strategy.
But ETB triggers are a big deal. You get none with this.
He is playing multiplayer EDH, not 1v1. He needs something to beat multiple competitive players.
I am genuinely confused, however, as to your reasoning behind this adament denial that you can build a Teeg list able to combat Hermit Druid. I am not looking for your opinion on the matter, I have done it, it does work and it can also be effective against other decks in the meta. Whether or not you believe it is or isn't is irrelevant to me, I know for a fact it is because I have played against it.
You are assuming that the Hermit Druid is perfectly built (almost always is) and that Gaddock Teeg durdles until turn 3-4 to drop hate cards. Not even close to the case. The deck begins lockout as early as turn 3 and by its' nature shuts down some answers to the threats (not all, but some). To believe it doesn't stand a chance is ignorant and proves to me that you have never played with or against the deck.
If your well built teeg deck was beating hermit druid he was either getting teamed or horrible. The cards you mention are not that good in fact most are worse than lightning bolt. Aven Mindcensor cost 3 it is easily removed doesn't prevent tutoring for druid as its too slow so at best if somone else answers them you turn their next tutor into am impulse that might wiff unless they remove your guy that seems horrible. Teeg as a turn 2 play in general does nothing against this deck at all so every time that play is made that was a bad turn in the MU. Sure white has a few very good cheap removals but even if you meta deck for druid you don't have a very high density of cheap cards to remove him that you want to be playing. Even if you did meta deck in this way your not any closer to winning and you have 2 more powerful decks to deal with riding your removal to victory. GY hate is good but rip is one of the least useful as it wont hit anything relevant your better off with a cheaper hoser like tormods crypt as the druid player will just entomb ancient grudge or tutor natures claim and destroy it anyway. The best options are ones they don't see coming in your hand. The other problem with hatebears in general is that they are all easily spot removed and instantly so you play them then they go they go EoT it dies play my druid behind my counters or haste play my druid im telling you i played against someone using a very competitive teeg list in 1:1 games when i played druid in paper and it was like 90%. Teeg is annoying to deal with but honestly i don't see " a well built teeg deck" pulling a high win% at a druid table unless its just relying on the other decks witch its hindering to beat druid for it....
You have got to use proper punctuation and spacing... I have no clue what you are trying to say.
What I am saying, as someone who has played Teeg and played against a good Teeg list and has played Hermit Druid is that it does have the answers for the deck, and happens to be able to shut off some of the other decks in the meta as well. I know for a fact that it does/can, and that Teeg has a built in answer to Dread Return, Green Sun's Zenith, and depending on the variant, a couple others.
I KNOW IT ISN'T THE MOST IDEAL FOR DEALING WITH HERMIT DRUID ALONE, but there is more than Hermit Druid in this meta, and Teeg is a well rounded answer deck that allows you to play several threatening creatures without concern of overextension.
Saying that a deck or the hatebears can be answered is silly. Most highly competitive lists run a ton of tutors so they can get what they need at that time... How are they going to find an StP when Mindcensor is already on the field? PLUS, always assume that you aren't mentally handicapped when running your own deck, and you can run tutors, Thalia, Winter Orb, etc.
My prediction is that you just haven't seen a good Teeg deck.
BTW, "They can just remove it!" is not a valid argument.
GY hate is good but rip is one of the least useful as it wont hit anything relevant your better off with a cheaper hoser like tormods crypt as the druid player will just entomb ancient grudge or tutor natures claim and destroy it anyway. The best options are ones they don't see coming in your hand.
Moxnix, could you do me a favour and clarify this statement? Why won't rest in peace hit anything relevant? Is it simply because a good druid player will have removal?
This is my current idea. I'm not sure that it will be enough though. Would it simply be better if I play Azami and counter threat after threat?
Just once, for the sake of humor, I want WotC to print a creature with "If 3 damage would be dealt to this creature by an instant, prevent that damage" and flavor text "Still dies to Doomblade"
Gotta be an Un set.
In the same set, an 8/3 creature for 3GG says, "If this creature would be destroyed by a black instant spell, instead, say 'Can't target black creatures' and change this creatures color to black until EoT."
Teeg gets wreaked by hermit Druid It only really blocks dread return a good player just taps Druid on upkeep flashes back memories journey for cmc 1 removal / reanimate and all you accomplished was nothing, what's worse is aside from Afew cards like path and STP you don't get a good early action density aginst the deck, so it can send it's duress effects elsewhere almost completely ignoring you. The decks curve makes it do you barley blank any cards at all.
Edit: depending how dervis built it's fairly bad aginst that deck too..
Teeg doesn't get wreaked (smelly) by hermit druid, at least not a well built one. And, all decks have access to answers for Hermit Druid. White has the cheap removal, it also has Linvala, it stands as much a chance, if not better, than most other decks.
Fact of the matter is, hermit druid is a good deck. If you are looking for a deck to beat it 100% of the time, good luck, but you can add smart things like RIP in your deck, as well as other reasonable answers. Most Teeg lists have a moderate Hate Bear theme, which includes Aven Mindcensor, Phyrexian Revoker, Leonin Arbiter, Loxodon Gatekeeper and more. You obviously have to tune your answers to your meta, but Teeg offers shutdown of many used cards for Derevi and Hermit Druid. I know, both have low curves, but pure control counters one and lets the other win. It does shut down a small percentage of your deck while leaving yours operational.
I have said it before and will say it again, Gaddock Teeg. Shuts down opponents things while working with your things. Best deck you can build to stop all of the other powerful decks in your meta.
Teeg is not going to shut down Derevi or Druid though and those are his main concerns. They both pack too many under 4cc answers and Teeg packs too few, especially lacking U. He won't be on the board when it matters. Teferi can be good but in my experience Derevi will outlast him easily while building threat. With Derevi never costing more than 4 and being able to be flashed in you can be very patient against mono-U.
Similar to how I responded above, a well built Teeg will. There is no commander that is ideal to take either of those decks down, which is why they are the best in the format, but you can tune a Teeg deck well enough to stop both. Being able to tutor RIP and Helm both is advantageous and you can always kill Teeg when your ready to drop Helm.
Side note, you can also try to control your way into dropping a Humility with any deck. I have seen a neat enchantress lock combo deck that goes off turn 4-5 by Coffee Vampire (fell inactive, but where credit is due). I have a similar version and it wins through enduring ideal. If your concern is either of those decks, you can run that deck, drop Enduring Ideal, get Humility or Dovescape (both for more fun) and win from there (any number of ways).
However, my recommendation is still Teeg. You can build it with enough spot removal and answers to beat either of those decks and shut out a good chunk of their play.
For Derevi, never forget the importance of Pithing Needle. Play it.
I can't think of any EDH deck of mine that I would want a 3 CMC 2/1 that conditionally draws a card on my upkeep. There are so many better options.
After that, something with Double Strike and Hexproof and you are golden.
I think... my ideal 3 would be:
Chromanticore, Bassara Tower Archer, and something Double Strike (plenty of options)
Also, Spark Elemental, Skyhunter Skirmisher, Bassara Tower Archer.
There aren't a ton of good hexproof + other ability creatures at the moment. Only will get better over time.
That extra 1 mana matters quite a bit, plus a single R is much easier to splash than [manabb[/mana].
Recruiter is pretty daggum fantastic. Most played cards in highly competitive metas have low CMCs and low P/T due to preferred early game control and aggression. Recruiter tutors out one of those, while leaving behind a cute little body. Yeah, it would be in almost all the top decks.
Came to say this. Grim Tutor made it in, fortunately, but no crpyt. My EDH bros!!
Agreed, and likely run both (RIP and Wheel). More chance to draw one, and the reason I suggest RIP is the usefulness with Helm of Obedience. That way, you can combo off and win while shutting an opponent down.
A well built Sisay deck is just silly good (I actually suggested it last page). One of my buddies runs a stax edition of it, very consistent and has answers to each deck built in, just tutors them out and wins from there. It being a stax deck, it is also naturally resistant to other stax decks. Sisay definitely works here.
Please read this.
Bear in mind, you also run things like Survival of the Fittest, Fauna Shaman, and other creature tutors.
Your prerogative, but this is your best option.
But ETB triggers are a big deal. You get none with this.
I am genuinely confused, however, as to your reasoning behind this adament denial that you can build a Teeg list able to combat Hermit Druid. I am not looking for your opinion on the matter, I have done it, it does work and it can also be effective against other decks in the meta. Whether or not you believe it is or isn't is irrelevant to me, I know for a fact it is because I have played against it.
You are assuming that the Hermit Druid is perfectly built (almost always is) and that Gaddock Teeg durdles until turn 3-4 to drop hate cards. Not even close to the case. The deck begins lockout as early as turn 3 and by its' nature shuts down some answers to the threats (not all, but some). To believe it doesn't stand a chance is ignorant and proves to me that you have never played with or against the deck.
You have got to use proper punctuation and spacing... I have no clue what you are trying to say.
What I am saying, as someone who has played Teeg and played against a good Teeg list and has played Hermit Druid is that it does have the answers for the deck, and happens to be able to shut off some of the other decks in the meta as well. I know for a fact that it does/can, and that Teeg has a built in answer to Dread Return, Green Sun's Zenith, and depending on the variant, a couple others.
I KNOW IT ISN'T THE MOST IDEAL FOR DEALING WITH HERMIT DRUID ALONE, but there is more than Hermit Druid in this meta, and Teeg is a well rounded answer deck that allows you to play several threatening creatures without concern of overextension.
Saying that a deck or the hatebears can be answered is silly. Most highly competitive lists run a ton of tutors so they can get what they need at that time... How are they going to find an StP when Mindcensor is already on the field? PLUS, always assume that you aren't mentally handicapped when running your own deck, and you can run tutors, Thalia, Winter Orb, etc.
My prediction is that you just haven't seen a good Teeg deck.
BTW, "They can just remove it!" is not a valid argument.
I saw my friend playing a list the other day that goes somewhat similar with this list. He is running a Captain Sisay deck that does everything it can to drop Sisay on turn 2-3, then tutor up whatever answers you need. Access to Hokori, Dust Drinker, Gaddock Teeg, more land drops, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Gaea's Cradle, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Mangara of Condor, Kataki, War's Wage, and a ton more.
Also, side note, may be worth adding in Blind Obedience, Kismet and the like for your meta. Seems relevant here.
Gotta be an Un set.
In the same set, an 8/3 creature for 3GG says, "If this creature would be destroyed by a black instant spell, instead, say 'Can't target black creatures' and change this creatures color to black until EoT."
Flavor test: "But it can still be hit by Bolt."
EDIT: AND STORM CROW.
Teeg doesn't get wreaked (smelly) by hermit druid, at least not a well built one. And, all decks have access to answers for Hermit Druid. White has the cheap removal, it also has Linvala, it stands as much a chance, if not better, than most other decks.
Fact of the matter is, hermit druid is a good deck. If you are looking for a deck to beat it 100% of the time, good luck, but you can add smart things like RIP in your deck, as well as other reasonable answers. Most Teeg lists have a moderate Hate Bear theme, which includes Aven Mindcensor, Phyrexian Revoker, Leonin Arbiter, Loxodon Gatekeeper and more. You obviously have to tune your answers to your meta, but Teeg offers shutdown of many used cards for Derevi and Hermit Druid. I know, both have low curves, but pure control counters one and lets the other win. It does shut down a small percentage of your deck while leaving yours operational.
Similar to how I responded above, a well built Teeg will. There is no commander that is ideal to take either of those decks down, which is why they are the best in the format, but you can tune a Teeg deck well enough to stop both. Being able to tutor RIP and Helm both is advantageous and you can always kill Teeg when your ready to drop Helm.
Side note, you can also try to control your way into dropping a Humility with any deck. I have seen a neat enchantress lock combo deck that goes off turn 4-5 by Coffee Vampire (fell inactive, but where credit is due). I have a similar version and it wins through enduring ideal. If your concern is either of those decks, you can run that deck, drop Enduring Ideal, get Humility or Dovescape (both for more fun) and win from there (any number of ways).
However, my recommendation is still Teeg. You can build it with enough spot removal and answers to beat either of those decks and shut out a good chunk of their play.
For Derevi, never forget the importance of Pithing Needle. Play it.