Hello, I have been unable to edit my cube list thread for weeks. It's a regular resource for all of my drafters and I have been patiently waiting for the restriction to be lifted so I can make all of the recent changes. May I have an exemption for the time being? I promise I am not a Korean spammer.
The cube has been updated. I made some purchases at the SCG Open in LA this past weekend to improve the cube and replace a few proxies. The changes are listed below. I took your guys advice and when cutting blue cards opted to substantially reduce the amount of bounce in the cube. There are 3 left in the cube (Man-o'-war, Vapor Snag and Into the Roil). Any thoughts on if those should be cut instead of the 3 I took out?
I liked the Signets for mana fixing and ramp but I don't think they have been neccessary enough to be worth inclusion. I pulled the 5 complimentry colored signets and left the 5 opposing colors as they are more likely to be needed for splashing. As I aquire a few more of the top teir artifacts and nonguild lands I need (Mana Crypt, Umezawa's Jitte and the last 2 swords) I will likely remove the last 5 signets.
I also feel like Red isn't getting as many wins as the other colors. It's been very close but I think it needs a little bump in power. Any thoughts on improvements or specific cards I'm missing? Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Thanks for the feedback. I'll try swapping Vapor Snag out for Deep Analysis. There are 3 other bounce effects in blue other than Vapor Snag so that's probably a good recommendation. Would you prefer Capsize in a cube over Vapor Snag?
I'm not quite sure where Unburial Rites belongs. I am trying it more as a combo card than anything. I feel like it improves the value of Gifts Ungiven and combos well with other mill effects. I don't consider it an Orzhov card but it's not mono-black either. I don't see it ever being played in a deck without the means to cast it with black and white mana. I'm open to feedback.
Today's update: Befoul --> Unburial Rites I'm listing this as a black card rather than Orzhov. Anyone think that's right or wrong? I think this will combo well with Gifts Ungiven and want to give it a try to see how it plays out. 5 mana is a lot but I think this could still be pretty decent. Deep Analysis --> Venser, Shaper Savant --> It was tough to make this cut to find room for Venser. I also considered Vapor Snag. Thoughts on if this was the best to cut? I play blue a lot and find myself not as interested in casting Deep Analysis at full cost. I'd like to hear others experience with it in cube (good or bad) to see if this cut was a mistake. (Thanks are owed to my friend who donated this for the cube out of his FTV20!) Prophetic Prism --> Thran Dynamo I think this was a easy/clear upgrade. I'm excited to finally have the Thran Dynamo in the cube to help with ramp and potentially Wildfire strategies. (Thanks are again owed to my friend who donated this for the cube out of his FTV20!)
I take Phantasmal Image here. It synergizes well with our Lark theme and is a two drop which fits well into our curve. This pack also enforces that blue is more open to us than red making the Image the solid choice.
The list is now complete at the full 450. The recent upgrades are listed below. I feel that most are pretty straight forward improvements. Does anyone have any input on these changes or ideas for ways to improve the list?
Silvan – I’m glad my list was helpful to you. It’s nice to meet a fellow EQ player as well! I actually had a low level bard in EQ named “Sylvan Library” back in the day. I feel like Afterlife is a bit of a weak link in my cube atm, but I do like it as a fair removal spell for white after the obvious choices. I like Linvala a lot but rarely see her used for her ability. I think her and Odric will be near the top of the list of cuts when I get more white creature upgrades. Iona is basically a reanimator target and doesn’t disappoint when she gets used. Careful Study is in there for the same deck but gets used more than I would have expected. Blue players in my group have expressed a desire to play it regularly. I’m happy with it.
Armageddon will probably never leave the cube. It’s an amazingly powerful card and a core card for the cube. I feel similarly about Strip Mine. It also gives all colors/decks the ability to answer Library of Alexandria which can take over games in any deck. Lastly it combos well with Crucible of Worlds which is a real strategy in our group.
As far as “fixing” I try to run the core dual lands and leave more of the fixing within each color or with artifacts. I diverge from many people by running all 10 signets which help for fixing as well as ramp. Green has quite a few dedicated mana fixers and cards like Chromatic Lantern and Prophetic Prism can help any deck fix their mana. When I want a diverse mana base, I draft the fetch lands, shock lands and dual lands much higher and rarely have issues.
Paladin en-Vec wasn’t getting as much play as I hoped but he did get played. I have higher hopes for Mirran Crusader in that slot.
I love Vesuvan Doppleganger! He was added as a throwback to the old school days but has been surprisingly good for us. I wouldn’t cut him any time soon.
You gave me an interesting idea for an alter with Afterlife. It would be nice to get the guild logo painted on it. I don’t think it will last in my cube for the long term though.
Stormtide Leviathan went in as another reanimator target but has impressed me. He’s been used as a finisher in blue control and worked. Artifact mana/ramp sure helps.
Volition Reigns is another of my personal favorites that probably isn’t in most lists. It’s held it’s own though as an answer to any type of permanent for blue. It’s earned it’s slot.
I think my group has genuine fear of me drafting Tradewind Rider or Upheaval. They are incredibly powerful if used correctly. Tradewind combos well with “enters the battlefield” effects as well.
Gaea’s Revenge has been good for us as a green fatty creature, but there are still at least 3 options I would prefer over him. He’s difficult to remove though and that has been important.
All my power is proxied. No real card in my cube is worth more than $40. When I do purchase upgrades I will likely buy collector’s edition versions of the power. They look the part and are much more reasonably priced. Should be perfect for the cube.
Lake Elsinore, CA (Inland Empire, Southern California)
MTGS Screename: Recursion
Powered: YES
Un cards: NO
Portal cards: NO
Special theme: NO
Number of Cards: 450
Proxies: YES
Cube link: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=567968
I made a massive purchase of some old cards. Most are a bit played. A few more severely but it's made for a great amount of upgrades. Like before I've added my feelings and justifications on the choices. I'm looking for any feedback on each of these selections.
Sphinx of Jwar Isle --> Tinker Tinker is a must include and I was happy to pick up a copy finally. I debated between removing the Sphinx of Frost Titan. Our playgroup prefers to keep Frost Titan so Sphinx got cut.
Go for the Throat --> Profane Command It seemed appropriate to take out a direct removal for the more versatile Profane Command that also serves as removal.
Graveborn Muse --> Oona's Prowler A lot of people play this card so I'm eager to try it for myself. My decision to cut a card was between Graveborn Muse and Bloodgift Demon. They are similiar in effect. I decided to cut the Zombie as Bloodgift gives a lot more for 1 extra colorless and the Zombie archtype isn't helpful on this card for the reason I like most other Zombies.
Liliana's Specter --> Ophiomancer I've liked the Specter, especially comboing with things to abuse ETB triggers, but I'm exicted to test Ophiomancer. It seems incredible for 3 mana.
Kiln Fiend --> Keldon Marauders Kiln Fiend wasn't getting used. Keldon marauders is much more consistent.
Goblin Rally --> Greater GargadonGoblin Rally had some sweet combo uses but was much too expensive. Gargadon should create some interesting boardstates.
Life // Death --> Deathrite Shaman It hurts losing a reanimation spell, but I didn't like it being tied up in the Golgari section. Deathrite is amazing especially with the fetchlands.
(added) Sundering Titan Additional artifact ramp and Tinker make this a real thing.
(added) Cursed Scroll Powerhouse from the old Sligh deck days. It gives agro decks another high pick.
(added) Grim Monolith Cube staple. I'm glad to finally have picked one up.
(added) Azorius Charm The 4th Azorius card. It's a placeholder for Geist of Saint Traft. I'm open to ideas on a better card than this until I get a Geist.
(added) Lotleth Troll I decided this was a more consistent and efficient option than Vraska the Unseen. Any thoughts? Was this the right call?
(added) Dreadbore I liked this as the 4th Rakdos card over Falkenrath Aristocrat considering the number of planeswalkers in the cube.
(added) Ajani Vengeant Finally picked him up. Glad to have another cube stable.
I now have met my goal of 4 spells and 4 land for each guild except Gruul. I am looking for any of the 3 Gruul planeswalkers to finish out that section. This sets the cube at 446 cards. I'm 4 short from maxing it out at 450. I should have a Sword of War and Peace coming to me soon and expect to have the last few artifacts done soon as well. What do you all think of these choices?
I posted these over in the Digital Rendering Thread here.
Wow that Garruk came out beautiful. I may try to print one of these. Nice work!
Quote from mrbrightside »
How I handle my Double-faced Cards: I have them sleeved in transparent sleeves, so that everyone can check everything about the cards during the draft, and I sleeved the corresponding checklists with the same sleeves as the rest of the cube to use during play (as you would do in a 3xINN draft)
That's a nice alternative solution. I like that it doesn't require any additional handling by the players to take the cards in and out of the sleeves continually. Thanks for the tip.
I think I might make the rest of the playable DFCs, actually. I wanted to remove the flavor text to de-clutter these anyway. Let me know if you have any requests!
Those are awesome! Thank you for making them for the community. Any chance of making a Garruk Relentless? It seems like it would be too much text unless you eliminated some or all of the art.
Psychoscopy U
Enchantment
Cumulative upkeep 1
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card for each age counter on ~, then discard that many cards. 1, Sacrifice ~: draw a card.
Are the age counters equal to the last paid cumulative upkeep? I don't like locking down too much mana early on in a blue deck, but it is a more simplistic way of creating the card which is helpful.
At the beginning of your turn, (before you untap) if you had any untapped mana, put a charge counter on Temporal Nexus.
During your upkeep draw a card for each charge counter on Temporal Nexus and then discard that many cards.
At the end of your turn if Temoral Nexus has more than 2 charge counters on it, sacrifice it and draw a card.
---------
It would be nice to have another discard outlet for graveyard based decks that would also be a desirable engine for control decks. It's cheap CC is mitigated by the fact that it doesn't immediately work if you cast it on curve (turn 1) and could still have a lasting impact on the game with a free cycle every turn if you choose to play it that way. What do you think?
Delver of Secrets had a good run in my cube and I admit that when I cut him it was partly motivated by the double faced aspect. I think he would have been cut in the long run anways due to power level. Garruk Relentless is the one card I feel is completely deserving of a slot and the one that makes me keep pondering the question.
wtwlf123 - I agree with you. My worry is that some of the people drafting my cube may be young and inexperienced. They have never double sleeved cards before and there may be a bit of a learner's curve so to speak. I'm hoping to avoid cards and sleeves getting over handled.
Uchach - I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who felt that way. You make a good point as well with people looking at the flip side during the drafting.
It sounds like the majority hasn't had issue with it. I think I'm going to try putting Garruk Relentless back in with the double sleeving and monitor how it goes for people. If it becomes an issue I can replace the sleeves or pull it from the cube.
This is the tread I am unable to edit fwiw: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/526651-450-powered-recursions-cube
Thank you!
I liked the Signets for mana fixing and ramp but I don't think they have been neccessary enough to be worth inclusion. I pulled the 5 complimentry colored signets and left the 5 opposing colors as they are more likely to be needed for splashing. As I aquire a few more of the top teir artifacts and nonguild lands I need (Mana Crypt, Umezawa's Jitte and the last 2 swords) I will likely remove the last 5 signets.
I also feel like Red isn't getting as many wins as the other colors. It's been very close but I think it needs a little bump in power. Any thoughts on improvements or specific cards I'm missing? Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Dismantling Blow --> Mirror Entity
Odric, Master Tactician --> Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Rakdos Signet --> Sword of Feast and Famine
Gruul Signet --> Phyrexian Revoker
Dimir Signet --> Pithing Needle
Azorius Signet --> Lightning Greaves
Selesnya Signet --> Mishra's Factory
Capsize --> Mystical Tutor
Aether Adept --> Serendib Efreet
Echoing Truth --> Looter il-Kor
Cheers!
I'm not quite sure where Unburial Rites belongs. I am trying it more as a combo card than anything. I feel like it improves the value of Gifts Ungiven and combos well with other mill effects. I don't consider it an Orzhov card but it's not mono-black either. I don't see it ever being played in a deck without the means to cast it with black and white mana. I'm open to feedback.
Cheers,
Zhur-Taa Druid --> Burning-Tree Emissary
Today's update:
Befoul --> Unburial Rites I'm listing this as a black card rather than Orzhov. Anyone think that's right or wrong? I think this will combo well with Gifts Ungiven and want to give it a try to see how it plays out. 5 mana is a lot but I think this could still be pretty decent.
Deep Analysis --> Venser, Shaper Savant --> It was tough to make this cut to find room for Venser. I also considered Vapor Snag. Thoughts on if this was the best to cut? I play blue a lot and find myself not as interested in casting Deep Analysis at full cost. I'd like to hear others experience with it in cube (good or bad) to see if this cut was a mistake. (Thanks are owed to my friend who donated this for the cube out of his FTV20!)
Prophetic Prism --> Thran Dynamo I think this was a easy/clear upgrade. I'm excited to finally have the Thran Dynamo in the cube to help with ramp and potentially Wildfire strategies. (Thanks are again owed to my friend who donated this for the cube out of his FTV20!)
Any thoughts or opinions on the swaps?
Cheers,
Cheers,
(added) Winter Orb
Flame Rift --> Chain Lightning
Sparksmith --> Chandra, the Firebrand
Braingeyser --> Vedalken Shackles
Yavimaya Granger --> Deranged Hermit
Elvish Visionary --> Wall of Blossoms I have a few cards that benefit from having elves in play, but I still think the wall is a stronger card overall.
Prophetic Bolt --> Steam Augury I have tried Steam Augury quite a bit in standard and been mostly unimpressed. Several posts on this forum have been in favor of the card in cube so I'm giving it a shot to see how it performs.
Pouncing Jaguar --> Wild Nacatl Even in a two color deck the Nacatl is better than the Jaguar.
Ravenous Baboons --> Hellspark Elemental
(added) Xenagos, the Reveler
Next step: Taking pictures
Cheers!
Armageddon will probably never leave the cube. It’s an amazingly powerful card and a core card for the cube. I feel similarly about Strip Mine. It also gives all colors/decks the ability to answer Library of Alexandria which can take over games in any deck. Lastly it combos well with Crucible of Worlds which is a real strategy in our group.
As far as “fixing” I try to run the core dual lands and leave more of the fixing within each color or with artifacts. I diverge from many people by running all 10 signets which help for fixing as well as ramp. Green has quite a few dedicated mana fixers and cards like Chromatic Lantern and Prophetic Prism can help any deck fix their mana. When I want a diverse mana base, I draft the fetch lands, shock lands and dual lands much higher and rarely have issues.
Paladin en-Vec wasn’t getting as much play as I hoped but he did get played. I have higher hopes for Mirran Crusader in that slot.
I love Vesuvan Doppleganger! He was added as a throwback to the old school days but has been surprisingly good for us. I wouldn’t cut him any time soon.
You gave me an interesting idea for an alter with Afterlife. It would be nice to get the guild logo painted on it. I don’t think it will last in my cube for the long term though.
Stormtide Leviathan went in as another reanimator target but has impressed me. He’s been used as a finisher in blue control and worked. Artifact mana/ramp sure helps.
Volition Reigns is another of my personal favorites that probably isn’t in most lists. It’s held it’s own though as an answer to any type of permanent for blue. It’s earned it’s slot.
I think my group has genuine fear of me drafting Tradewind Rider or Upheaval. They are incredibly powerful if used correctly. Tradewind combos well with “enters the battlefield” effects as well.
Gaea’s Revenge has been good for us as a green fatty creature, but there are still at least 3 options I would prefer over him. He’s difficult to remove though and that has been important.
All my power is proxied. No real card in my cube is worth more than $40. When I do purchase upgrades I will likely buy collector’s edition versions of the power. They look the part and are much more reasonably priced. Should be perfect for the cube.
Cheers!
Cheers
MTGS Screename: Recursion
Powered: YES
Un cards: NO
Portal cards: NO
Special theme: NO
Number of Cards: 450
Proxies: YES
Cube link: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=567968
Cheers!
Paladin en-Vec --> Mirran Crusader Very similar but I think a strict upgrade overall.
Lingering Souls --> Mana Tithe Lingering Souls has been moved to the Orzhov section.
Opportunity --> Crystal Shard I love Opportunity but it's not needed in this format at 6 mana.
Sphinx of Jwar Isle --> Tinker Tinker is a must include and I was happy to pick up a copy finally. I debated between removing the Sphinx of Frost Titan. Our playgroup prefers to keep Frost Titan so Sphinx got cut.
Go for the Throat --> Profane Command It seemed appropriate to take out a direct removal for the more versatile Profane Command that also serves as removal.
Graveborn Muse --> Oona's Prowler A lot of people play this card so I'm eager to try it for myself. My decision to cut a card was between Graveborn Muse and Bloodgift Demon. They are similiar in effect. I decided to cut the Zombie as Bloodgift gives a lot more for 1 extra colorless and the Zombie archtype isn't helpful on this card for the reason I like most other Zombies.
Liliana's Specter --> Ophiomancer I've liked the Specter, especially comboing with things to abuse ETB triggers, but I'm exicted to test Ophiomancer. It seems incredible for 3 mana.
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon --> Shriekmaw I feel like Shriekmaw will get played a lot more often than Skithiryx.
Ghitu Slinger --> Hero of Oxid Ridge Ghitu Slinger wasn't cutting it.
Kiln Fiend --> Keldon Marauders Kiln Fiend wasn't getting used. Keldon marauders is much more consistent.
Goblin Rally --> Greater GargadonGoblin Rally had some sweet combo uses but was much too expensive. Gargadon should create some interesting boardstates.
Uktabi Orangutan --> Viridian Shaman Elves are more important in the cube than monkeys (sadly)
Desolation Angel --> Lingering Souls The Angel was a filler card until I got some upgrades (see Sorin below) and Lingering Souls always belonged here.
Recoil --> Psychatog Pretty clear upgrade.
Armadillo Cloak --> Qasali Pridemage The cloak has had some great games but it was still the weakest link.
Soltari Guerrillas --> Lightning Helix Another instance of a card that was more of a placeholder. Helix is a great upgrade.
Life // Death --> Deathrite Shaman It hurts losing a reanimation spell, but I didn't like it being tied up in the Golgari section. Deathrite is amazing especially with the fetchlands.
(added) Sundering Titan Additional artifact ramp and Tinker make this a real thing.
(added) Darksteel Colossus Did I mention Tinker is included now?
(added) Cursed Scroll Powerhouse from the old Sligh deck days. It gives agro decks another high pick.
(added) Grim Monolith Cube staple. I'm glad to finally have picked one up.
(added) Azorius Charm The 4th Azorius card. It's a placeholder for Geist of Saint Traft. I'm open to ideas on a better card than this until I get a Geist.
(added) Lotleth Troll I decided this was a more consistent and efficient option than Vraska the Unseen. Any thoughts? Was this the right call?
(added) Dreadbore I liked this as the 4th Rakdos card over Falkenrath Aristocrat considering the number of planeswalkers in the cube.
(added) Ajani Vengeant Finally picked him up. Glad to have another cube stable.
(added) Fleecemane Lion He seems like a solid addition. I'd rather have Voice of Resurgence but this will do for a while.
(added) Sorin, Lord of Innistrad Finally!
(added) Coiling Oracle Good value, but not exicting. Simic choices don't seem very deep. I'm looking for Trygon Predator eventually for this slot.
(added) Far // Away Placeholder that is soon to become Baleful Strix.
(added) Electrolyze Finally!
I now have met my goal of 4 spells and 4 land for each guild except Gruul. I am looking for any of the 3 Gruul planeswalkers to finish out that section. This sets the cube at 446 cards. I'm 4 short from maxing it out at 450. I should have a Sword of War and Peace coming to me soon and expect to have the last few artifacts done soon as well. What do you all think of these choices?
Cheers!
Wow that Garruk came out beautiful. I may try to print one of these. Nice work!
That's a nice alternative solution. I like that it doesn't require any additional handling by the players to take the cards in and out of the sleeves continually. Thanks for the tip.
Cheers
Those are awesome! Thank you for making them for the community. Any chance of making a Garruk Relentless? It seems like it would be too much text unless you eliminated some or all of the art.
Cheers
Are the age counters equal to the last paid cumulative upkeep? I don't like locking down too much mana early on in a blue deck, but it is a more simplistic way of creating the card which is helpful.
Cheers
Enchantment
At the beginning of your turn, (before you untap) if you had any untapped mana, put a charge counter on Temporal Nexus.
During your upkeep draw a card for each charge counter on Temporal Nexus and then discard that many cards.
At the end of your turn if Temoral Nexus has more than 2 charge counters on it, sacrifice it and draw a card.
---------
It would be nice to have another discard outlet for graveyard based decks that would also be a desirable engine for control decks. It's cheap CC is mitigated by the fact that it doesn't immediately work if you cast it on curve (turn 1) and could still have a lasting impact on the game with a free cycle every turn if you choose to play it that way. What do you think?
Cheers
wtwlf123 - I agree with you. My worry is that some of the people drafting my cube may be young and inexperienced. They have never double sleeved cards before and there may be a bit of a learner's curve so to speak. I'm hoping to avoid cards and sleeves getting over handled.
Uchach - I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who felt that way. You make a good point as well with people looking at the flip side during the drafting.
It sounds like the majority hasn't had issue with it. I think I'm going to try putting Garruk Relentless back in with the double sleeving and monitor how it goes for people. If it becomes an issue I can replace the sleeves or pull it from the cube.
Thanks for the replies!
Cheers