Every time I play against it, it feels like an impossible match up.
Most of their creatures are resistant to Lightning Bolt, have also have built-in card advantage, coupled with Eldrazi Temple, the match-up is so demoralizing.
What type of sideboard cards do everyone use to deal with this? I usually use Spreading Seas and Supreme Verdict, but it doesn't seem enough...
I've found that the closer your deck is to straight UW control, the easier the match-up is. So lots of wrath effects (Supreme Verdict and/or Wrath of God), Detention Sphere is useful, more Mana Leak in the main deck to get out of the early game and cutting Spell Snare and your red spells, except Nahiri, the Harbinger. Nahiri should just be used as value generator in the matchup instead of our way to summon shorter games and playing the long game has rewarded me well. That said, the matchup still feels like you absolutely need to draw well and some combination of Serum Visions and Ancestral Vision is absolutely necessary for this matchup. All that said, the main deck and sideboard that I would want for this matchup aren't really viable in an open tournament. So how we get something that's workable for that matchup is beyond me. I just know what works for me in this matchup.
I think Spreading Seas is very useless in this matchup, but maybe I haven't evaluated it properly.
EDIT: I assumed he meant Bant Eldrazi or EldraziTron. Eldrazi and Taxes seems pretty weak against a base Jeskai Nahiri deck.
Thanks for your advice. I played against Bant and the Taxes version and got my ass handed to me.
Anyone have good sideboard options other than sweepers?
Well I advocate for you guys to ignore that silly Black splash for souls, in fact Secure The Wastes is WAY better when you run 4 Snappy and counters. Really it won me like 4 games today.
I went for my LGS FNM going 5-0 with my list (you find it a few Pages back).
Game 1: Bushwacker Zoo (2-1)
Game 2: Ad Nauseum (2-1)
Game 3: Suicide Zoo/Death's Shadow (2-0)
Game 4: Abzan Doran (2-0)
Game 5: Bant Eternal Command (2-0)
In my local the skill level is very High so all of my opponents today was above average. I like The Feeling of my list and i dont think i need to change anything in my 75 at all
And honestly Secure is PURE madness!
Every time I play against it, it feels like an impossible match up.
Most of their creatures are resistant to Lightning Bolt, have also have built-in card advantage, coupled with Eldrazi Temple, the match-up is so demoralizing.
What type of sideboard cards do everyone use to deal with this? I usually use Spreading Seas and Supreme Verdict, but it doesn't seem enough...
I am going to cut 1 of each to add more Mana Leaks and Lightning Helixes. But now I am thinking about cutting them all together and replace them with a land (the 24th) and a Pia and Kiran Nalaar or Secure the Wastes. Has anyone tests with these cards? or what does the community think of them in this deck?
For a control deck against an aggro deck, wouldn't SV be better at finding answers?
I feel like most tier 1 or 2 decks now are so fast, control deck will need to find early answers else they lose. Wouldn't that make SV better? Since most of the time you would lose by the time AV resolves.
I'd like to know the community's thought on number of Ancestral Vision vs the number of Serum Visions.
I've been trying to build Grixis Control, Jeskai Control and some sort of control and I've seen decks that ran anywhere between (AV:SV) 4:0 to 4:2 to 0:4.
After some testing, I feel like SV is still a better card. I've been testing with the ratio of 3:4. Here are some of my experience in general:
Serum Visions Pros:
I as able to keep hands like 1 land + 1 SV + 5 other good cards, I feel like if the SV was an AV, I wouldn't be able to keep that hand
SV is good in most, if not, all stages of the game, AV is generally only good in the beginning
It has also very likely that you don't draw anything when AV resolves
Scry helps with you are playing delver
Ancestral Vision Pros:
SV is not exactly card advantage, AV is
These experiences are with Main Deck, obviously you side out AV if you are playing against a fast deck.
I'd like to hear what the community thinks about AV vs SV.
Ral Zarek in modern is pretty bad, there is a better card called [CARD]Ajani Vengeant
[/CARD] that does the same thing but better and it's not seeing play in this deck
Another thing that I realized is that usually, I just stall and stall some more with tempo cards (like Remand or Cryptic), then I cast my Geist, and my opponent plays something and completely stops my dude, and fall behind.
I feel like our threats are not threatening enough.
Depends on what else is in your hand. You've filtered through 2 additional cards thanks to 2x Remand, on top of whatever your natural draw gave you.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though stalling+making land drops is good, it doesn't win you the game. Goyf + Liliana in their hand is too threatening and you can't let them go unanswered.
Also, I feel the deck isn't taking advantage from the tempo gain (in the case of Remandx2 and T4 Cryptic). Sure, we stopped them from playing a spell (this turn in case of Remand), but the deck isn't taking advantage of it (no creature to attack with).
EXACTLY!!!! This is what I was trying to say, in other words, a few posts back:
Remand gives you free land drops and TIME.
That quote you said is great because I really "know" that I am going to win when I Remand that T2 Goyf, that T3 Liliana, and then I already have cryptic mana up and the opponent hasn't played anything yet. With the amount of removal in this deck, the almost inmortal Geist, and a healthy dose of counterspells, getting to turn 4 with a clean board is a win 99% of the time.
So, I repeat, Remand gives you time, which is the only thing WUR Tempo needs, and less than 4 is a mistake.
And I still stand with my choice of 4 Cryptics too since they are so incredidibly powerful, even against fast decks becuase of the Fog mode.
Not trying to say Remand is bad, but I'm just wondering:
What do you do when there is a clear board on turn 4 and you know your opponent has Goyf and Liliana? You can't run Giest out yet. Lets assume you have Crypitic mana and one in hand. What do you do? Play control and stall some more with Cryptics?
I have played with both lists and here are my thoughts:
Wall of Omens:
Dark Confidant:
I am curious to hear what everyone else thinks.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/459155
4 Wall of Omens
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (30)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dreadbore
1 Go for the Throat
2 Terminate
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Needle Spires
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Shambling Vent
1 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Ajani Vengeant
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Duress
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Wear // Tear
Thanks for your advice. I played against Bant and the Taxes version and got my ass handed to me.
Anyone have good sideboard options other than sweepers?
Would you mind sharing your deck list?
Every time I play against it, it feels like an impossible match up.
Most of their creatures are resistant to Lightning Bolt, have also have built-in card advantage, coupled with Eldrazi Temple, the match-up is so demoralizing.
What type of sideboard cards do everyone use to deal with this? I usually use Spreading Seas and Supreme Verdict, but it doesn't seem enough...
Since most of us play Ancestral Vision, as well as Anger of the Gods and Timely Reinforcements, the goblin has a lot of value stuff to flashback.
It also seems like a good alternative if we can't win with Nahiri.
There was also a 5-0 list recently with 1 GDD in the MD
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/450585
I am going to cut 1 of each to add more Mana Leaks and Lightning Helixes. But now I am thinking about cutting them all together and replace them with a land (the 24th) and a Pia and Kiran Nalaar or Secure the Wastes. Has anyone tests with these cards? or what does the community think of them in this deck?
1x Blood Crypt
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Desolate Lighthouse
3x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
Instant (19)
1x Cryptic Command
1x Dispel
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
2x Spell Snare
2x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
1x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2x Gurmag Angler
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Thing in the Ice Flip
Sorcery (7)
3x Ancestral Vision
4x Serum Visions
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Dispel
1x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Vampiric Link
2x Vandalblast
1x Vendilion Clique
What does the community think about this deck?
I'm liking the AV to SV ratio. I'm also liking the delve theme with 4 Though Scour and 4 delve creatures where turn 2 Tasigur is a real possibility
I feel like most tier 1 or 2 decks now are so fast, control deck will need to find early answers else they lose. Wouldn't that make SV better? Since most of the time you would lose by the time AV resolves.
I've been trying to build Grixis Control, Jeskai Control and some sort of control and I've seen decks that ran anywhere between (AV:SV) 4:0 to 4:2 to 0:4.
After some testing, I feel like SV is still a better card. I've been testing with the ratio of 3:4. Here are some of my experience in general:
Serum Visions Pros:
I as able to keep hands like 1 land + 1 SV + 5 other good cards, I feel like if the SV was an AV, I wouldn't be able to keep that hand
SV is good in most, if not, all stages of the game, AV is generally only good in the beginning
It has also very likely that you don't draw anything when AV resolves
Scry helps with you are playing delver
Ancestral Vision Pros:
SV is not exactly card advantage, AV is
These experiences are with Main Deck, obviously you side out AV if you are playing against a fast deck.
I'd like to hear what the community thinks about AV vs SV.
It doesn't run Abbot of Keral Keep.
It looks a little like that Blue Jund deck, but it doesn't run Abbot of Keral Keep.
I really like Remanding something big, then +1 on Lili.
[/CARD] that does the same thing but better and it's not seeing play in this deck
I feel like our threats are not threatening enough.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though stalling+making land drops is good, it doesn't win you the game. Goyf + Liliana in their hand is too threatening and you can't let them go unanswered.
Also, I feel the deck isn't taking advantage from the tempo gain (in the case of Remandx2 and T4 Cryptic). Sure, we stopped them from playing a spell (this turn in case of Remand), but the deck isn't taking advantage of it (no creature to attack with).
The deck is just stalling into...more stalling...
Maybe I'm playing the deck wrong?
Not trying to say Remand is bad, but I'm just wondering:
What do you do when there is a clear board on turn 4 and you know your opponent has Goyf and Liliana? You can't run Giest out yet. Lets assume you have Crypitic mana and one in hand. What do you do? Play control and stall some more with Cryptics?