Is Liliana going to see play in faeries? Got them for complex dredge but decided against picking up black fetches, was waiting for the season high to trade them but I'm impatient and want to finish pod and some legacy decks. Wondering if it will go up any more?
It's not really that they can't play, it's the fact that they put that much effort into getting all those cards, now they probably have to either trade for 4 Arid Mesa to play them in zoo or 4 Noble Hierarch to play them in junk which also ran DRS. That's not only a lot of money worth of staples after buying/trading into what was the most expensive deck in the format, but also very hard to find staples in some places, especially with so many more people looking for them. I mean personally I wouldn't really care that much because I change decks a lot anyway, but I understand where people are coming from especially when some pretty much traded their whole collection away to play that one deck.
Yeah I know Goyf will always be a key piece to a competitive deck but just imagine going through the amount of trading to put Jund together then having a key card banned and your only options are to go through more trading to play a deck that you don't really like that much, or completely trade into something else. Personally I'd just stick with Jund and go a faster route if I were in their shoes. I think I saw a few decks like that before Deathrite was printed, but most people who played jund don't seem to be interested, the biggest appeal for many of the players was DRS and BBE initially.
Its honestly just how modern is and its unfortunate because so many people in my area just dont have the money to cash in. That being said I'd say if you dont have many any of the cards for this format in the deck you would want to play, wait. The format will settle people will figure out whats good/bad and prices may (hopefully) drop
In my area many have cashed in to the format, now there are several who have put ridiculous amounts of time and effort into putting jund together who don't consider it a deck they want to play post ban. Now they're sitting on a pile of fetches that they can't use with their goyfs and a $500 dollar set of Goyfs that they need to get new fetches among other cards so they can use them. I'm not one of these people but I completely understand where they're coming from . Even a lot of the people with the money to cash in to this format are becoming very weary of doing so now. Hopefully eventually the format will settle and shifts in the meta don't have to be from bans/unbans, but it's been 2 years already, makes me wonder how long it will take.
Pretty much, sometimes it just beats down with Ichorids too. To me it looks like a more skill intensive version, being a turn slower would make it less forgiving with cabal therapy since a win against a lot of legacy decks could hinge on wether or not you hit with it. I'm pretty inexperienced with Dredge but that's my reason for avoiding Quadlaser, could be the better deck in certain metas though.
It just drops dread return and dread return targets to go for a full four (quad) of everything else for consistency. Kills a turn slower, but the general theory is that it hits enough disruption the turn before the kill that it doesn't matter.
It certainly has its advantages. I've even heard of some people MDing Firestorm, but I can't condone that sort of thing. Street Wraith is OK, I guess. It certainly seems to be what people are playing these days. It doesn't really have a place in my deck, for various reasons.
I trimmed the Bloodghast fluff, and went back to a very old Dread Return list with absolutely nothing fancy in it. It's a Sphinx of Lost Truths build with two Gitaxian Probe. I've noticed several differences between it, the Quadlazer, and others.
First of all, with the Quadlazer we're getting 3rd and 4th turn kills. This is somewhat misleading, as it reflects merely the turn on which lethal damage enters the Red Zone. The effectively fatal turn is earlier, turn 2 or 3, and is that turn on which the Quadlazer fires off enough Cabal Therapies to snatch the opponent's entire hand.
By tuning the Tireless Tribe Sphinx list, I've pushed the turn 2 kill rate to the sunny side of 50%, but there's a catch. In order to Dread Return the Sphinx of Lost Truths, or directly kill with FKZ, much of the time there is only a single Cabal Therapy to spare, either because only one of them flipped or there's a body shortage. Hence it's far more important to be accurate with that first Therapy call.
Still, I like how it's working out. Two MD Dread Returns, one of them the Sphinx and the other the instant win (in this case, the MD FKZ) are remarkably efficient at getting that instant win card on to the battlefield, turn 2. Silver-bullet SB creatures are so much more threatening when they have an excellent shot of making it into play, no matter if they started in one's opening hand or flipped during a Dredge. Turn 2 is the perfect time to threaten them as well: it's Iona on white against a Rest In Peace deck just before they have 2 mana available.
I do love those fatties.
Cool, I've been having similar results with my tt build I've been working on, my turn two isn't quite as good but thinking it's probably my lack of experience with dredge. Ive been running Griselbrand/FKZ as my md DR targets for goldfishing, no real testing yet because I don't have the deck actually built. do you find sphinx just as good as Griselbrand, or better in certain circumstances? I know I'd much rather pay the price of sphinx, I don't really wanna do much more goldfishing before I finish the deck so I thought I'd ask you hoping you have experience with both.
Edit - Something I've been contemplating as well is rather than running FKZ, trying out 2 griselbrand or sphinx, I've had a fair amount of times FKZ is in my graveyard where it wouldn't kill on DR but one of the other two would let me go deeper and disrupt more and still get the kill the next turn, it's happened enough times I think it's worth me considering the switch. What are your thoughts on this?
Thinking I'll drop one street wraith for another citadel. That gives me 10 rainbow land, 10 dredgers, 9 card draw (not including wraith), and 8 discard outlets. I think that gives a fairly good chance for me to open with what I need, I'd like to make room for one more land, or maybe one more ichorid but having trouble cutting anything else. I really like the Street wraiths so far, those would probably be the first things to go though. Thoughts on changes?
Edit - after playing a couple matches with the extra ichorid and seeing how much easier it made the beatdown plan in such a smal sample size I'm definitely adding it. -1 looting +1 ichorid. The list seems pretty good at what it does, but I'm still open to changes. I'll be putting it through a lot of testing soon, just have to pick up ichorids on modo first, hate to pay 18 tickets for them but I guess it could be worse.
Question to any Ledless players out there, is 8 rainbow lands enough? I know a lot of Led versions run just 8, but I'm thinking I want 9-10 for my Ledless version. Probably going to run either Tarnished citadel or Undiscovered paradise for my last 1-2 slots, are there any other good options as far as rainbow lands go for dredge?
What do you guys think about mutavaults? Are they inflated right now because of standard and to what degree? What's the forecast?
For a little while when they just got the reprint they were going for $15ish. They only jumped to their current price when people started jamming them in whatever standard deck they could. If you wait for them to rotate I'd guess they'll drop back down to 15 or lower, just a guess though.
People need to get better at card evaluating, plain and simple. I look at Fist of Suns and think to myself, "I'm never go to play this and its situational at best." Also, are peple that gullible to think Ninja Bear Delver was going to be a thing?
I think the thing about ninja bear delver is it looks like a really fun deck to play and for a lot of people who play blue in modern already, Shoal is probably the only card keeping them from putting the deck together for some fun FNM's. Mine have basically been collecting dust for years and I can't decide if I should sell them or keep them to play U delver every once and a while at small tournaments.
I don't really think it's really the color that's the reason it won't get played, the fact is it's good but the 2 drop slot might just be too stacked. Hypothetically if it were mono U, what would get cut to include it? Looking at my list I don't think I'd be able to find room.
So I don't know how many people remember, but back in November there was a guy claiming to have seen art for a merfolk card in BNG that was being designed specifically designed for modern, and presumably for this deck. Well that same guy described the art on both the UW and the GW scry lands and his descriptions were accurate, so the source is probably legit. Every time wizards designs creatures for modern we get cards like young pyromancer and deathrite shaman so hopefully we'll see a merfolk equivalent in the next few days.
I remember this, I was thinking that he might have seen True-name nemesis and mixed up his products/formats. But hopefully I'm wrong! I didn't realize he described the art on the scry lands, guess I was only paying attention to the merfolk part.
In my area many have cashed in to the format, now there are several who have put ridiculous amounts of time and effort into putting jund together who don't consider it a deck they want to play post ban. Now they're sitting on a pile of fetches that they can't use with their goyfs and a $500 dollar set of Goyfs that they need to get new fetches among other cards so they can use them. I'm not one of these people but I completely understand where they're coming from . Even a lot of the people with the money to cash in to this format are becoming very weary of doing so now. Hopefully eventually the format will settle and shifts in the meta don't have to be from bans/unbans, but it's been 2 years already, makes me wonder how long it will take.
They could just put Force of Will, Wasteland Karakas and Rishadan Port as mythics and people would go nuts!
Pretty much, sometimes it just beats down with Ichorids too. To me it looks like a more skill intensive version, being a turn slower would make it less forgiving with cabal therapy since a win against a lot of legacy decks could hinge on wether or not you hit with it. I'm pretty inexperienced with Dredge but that's my reason for avoiding Quadlaser, could be the better deck in certain metas though.
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
DREDGERS
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bridge from Below
4 Ichorid
4 Careful study
It just drops dread return and dread return targets to go for a full four (quad) of everything else for consistency. Kills a turn slower, but the general theory is that it hits enough disruption the turn before the kill that it doesn't matter.
Cool, I've been having similar results with my tt build I've been working on, my turn two isn't quite as good but thinking it's probably my lack of experience with dredge. Ive been running Griselbrand/FKZ as my md DR targets for goldfishing, no real testing yet because I don't have the deck actually built. do you find sphinx just as good as Griselbrand, or better in certain circumstances? I know I'd much rather pay the price of sphinx, I don't really wanna do much more goldfishing before I finish the deck so I thought I'd ask you hoping you have experience with both.
Edit - Something I've been contemplating as well is rather than running FKZ, trying out 2 griselbrand or sphinx, I've had a fair amount of times FKZ is in my graveyard where it wouldn't kill on DR but one of the other two would let me go deeper and disrupt more and still get the kill the next turn, it's happened enough times I think it's worth me considering the switch. What are your thoughts on this?
4 Putrid Imp
2 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Street Wraith
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Dread Return
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Faithless Looting
1 Tarnished Citadel
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
Thinking I'll drop one street wraith for another citadel. That gives me 10 rainbow land, 10 dredgers, 9 card draw (not including wraith), and 8 discard outlets. I think that gives a fairly good chance for me to open with what I need, I'd like to make room for one more land, or maybe one more ichorid but having trouble cutting anything else. I really like the Street wraiths so far, those would probably be the first things to go though. Thoughts on changes?
Edit - after playing a couple matches with the extra ichorid and seeing how much easier it made the beatdown plan in such a smal sample size I'm definitely adding it. -1 looting +1 ichorid. The list seems pretty good at what it does, but I'm still open to changes. I'll be putting it through a lot of testing soon, just have to pick up ichorids on modo first, hate to pay 18 tickets for them but I guess it could be worse.
For a little while when they just got the reprint they were going for $15ish. They only jumped to their current price when people started jamming them in whatever standard deck they could. If you wait for them to rotate I'd guess they'll drop back down to 15 or lower, just a guess though.
I think the thing about ninja bear delver is it looks like a really fun deck to play and for a lot of people who play blue in modern already, Shoal is probably the only card keeping them from putting the deck together for some fun FNM's. Mine have basically been collecting dust for years and I can't decide if I should sell them or keep them to play U delver every once and a while at small tournaments.
Edit - It's slightly better than I thought at first glance, 2 power merfolk mana dork for 2 cmc. And untaps Vial!
I remember this, I was thinking that he might have seen True-name nemesis and mixed up his products/formats. But hopefully I'm wrong! I didn't realize he described the art on the scry lands, guess I was only paying attention to the merfolk part.