You've got a 59% chance of hitting 3 mana by turn 3 (not the worst, but not great either), only 39% of hitting 4 by turn 4 (bad), and if you get stuck with a Hellkite in your opening hand, you've got worse than a coin-flip's chance of seeing 5 mana before turn 8 (then it's only 56%)... with those odds, Hellkite might as well not even be in the deck.
Hey Redthirst, How exactly did you calculate these percentages. I would like to know how to show a friend as well as evalute my other decks. Seems very usefull to know the probibilty of getting lands on each turn and such. It would be GREATLY APRECIATED.
I just recieved access to the competitive forums. I played a MonoRed Sligh last cycle and had a lot of fun with it. It also won me a few FNM's. I love how fast an aggro red deck plays. With the rotation of Return to Ravnica, I have decided to update my red deck to meet the new standard.
Here is my list and some explanation.
Deck Strategy: You want to go all out with this deck. You want to put as much pressure on them as fast as you can. Ideally, you want to be full swinging every combat. In an optimal scenario, you can win by turn 4 and still be able to play some supportive burn spells. In this case, you will outrun a supreme verdict. Bottom line: hit as hard and as fast as you can, holding nothing back. I hope to win before a mid-game situation develops. If I get to late game, I have already lost.
Vexing Devil:
I have heard a lot of bad things about this card. The main reason is that, by giving them a choice, the effect of this card will not be the one you want. However, I think he still is useful, for a couple of reasons. The deck I put together wants to win as fast as possible. If you haven't won by turn 6-7, or are in a position to easily win, then you probably won't. This the same kind of balls to the walls strategy used in a Suicide Black deck in vintage. In this hyper-aggro RDW, vexing devil has a place, IMO. When you play him on turn 2, they are likely to just take the 4 damage to the face. You could then play another 1 drop as well and swing with your turn one play. An optimal turn 3 play with him would be lightning mauler and then vexing devil. Either you take 4 to your face or I am swinging for 4 with a hasted vexing devil. On turn 4, you follow up a vexing devil with a brimstone volley. After turn 4, he loses much of his usefulness. At this point, the choice he presents to the opponent will start to be an impediment. However, I am not too concerned with this because he should have already played is parts on previous turns and they should be within kill range of my other creatures / burn spells.
Flames of the Firebrand: This spell is an awesome board clearer. It enables you to pick off a bunch of tokens, mana dorks, or chump blockers. Very usefull in getting you creatures able to connect with your opponent.
Traitorous Blood: I am not sure if these should necessarily be mainboarded. It seems good to be able to steal their biggest creature and whack them with it. However, the space may be better used with other cards. Opinions?
Land: I was originally running 22 lands in this deck, but I started to get mana flooded frequently. So I cut back the land count to 19. With this deck having the bulk of its mana cost in the 1-2 range, this shouldn’t be a problem. However, if I have issues with shortages, I probably will take out the traitorous blood and put in 2 more mountains.
As for the sideboard, I have yet to get a final sideboard in place. I will be adapting it as the meta develops. So far, I think the core of my sideboard will be:
I also think you'll have a much more difficult time building Naya Aggro without the stability of a dual-heavy manabase. You could easily spend $100 alone just on lands.
In terms of price. The Core dual lands and Innistrad duels are not that high.
Would this make a Naya deck eaiser to make then?
One of the reasons I started this thread is that the Two competivily capable decks I have (Wu Humans and RDW) seem to have been falling off. Bonfire seems to have butchered these decks.
Keep Ideas flowing. Thanks for all the input. It is benifiting me and anyone else who will look at this thread.
The goal of this thread is to gather ideas on how to make the current competitive deck types easier on the wallet. I want this thread to be a general, all purpose place to gather ideas on how to make this kind of deck. I am hoping for a competitive enougth to be able to win FNM and be in the top
75-100 decks at a bigger tournament if possible.
I am sure some competitive archtypes will lend themselves to being 'bugetized' better than others. If you know of good examples of budget decks. please post links to them in this thread.
The following are two deck types I for sure would like to see discussed.
- Delver
- Naya Aggro
Please feel free to discuss other in order to get more ideas flowing.
I would also like to keep in mind the phasing out of scars block when designing these budget decks. Hopefully the ammount of M12 and Scars cards can be minimal to ease the transistion of one of these decks with the release of Return to Ravnica. I am hoping the decks developed in this thread can be used afther the release of the next few sets with updating as needed.
Rules:
1) No single card in the deck can be over $10.
2) The total price of the deck cannot exceed $100
Thanks. Get to the posting and helping of others be better players. Thanks Again.
Well first off, you need a couple more lands as 20 is too low for that curve.
I mean no offense in my response.
You think...? I get mana flooded WAY more often then I ever get screwed, in my experience. Is that just a long-running coincidence?
As it is, I only have 2 cards with 4 CMC in mainboard. If I get three mana I can play nearly my entire deck and will still have a good chance of drawing a fourth for hero.
Also, dagger is pretty beastly on mirran crusader. +3/+0 on double strike hits hard. In some ways it could be better than a sword in that you can utilize its effects on mirran crusader earlier.
Also, thalia will hurt my ability to play Oblivion ring and Honor the Pure and Bond of Faith. Why would it still be worth it then?
And Why is Bonds of Faith meh? It is either a pacifism for there stuff or +2/+2 for your stuff. Good target for it is Mirran crusader.
I would agree hood could get replaced. It seemed to be usefull to help my creatures connect with my opponent. I guess I could replace it with a land. Still concerned that I will often flood out, especially later in the game.
Last question... Should I take Mikeaus out? He seems a little slow and takes to long. Thoughts?
Thanks for the comments people. Really Appreciated.
I have done very well with this deck so far. I have won FNM 3 times with and and have placed near the top at least a half a dozen times. As such, it seems to work well as is. HOWEVER, it is not without its issues. If I do not get a mirran crusader, hero, doomed traveler. or champion, I have difficulty winning. Also, it has a tendency to flood me with land every now and then.
The idea of this deck is to be aggressive with lower cost creatures yet it still maintains a decent control element to deal with issues so that my hitters can win the game.
Now, come ye yall and post comments on this deck. Please suggest ways it could be improved further. Point out any additional weaknesses and how those can be remedied. I appreciate the criticism, as it will help me become a better player and deck builder.
Here are the results from FNM Game 1: Played against a red deck. Won 2-0. I slaughtered my opponent. On turn 6, I dealt him 50+ damage in one swing. He was unable to deal with the amount of creatures I had on the field. In truth. He was also inexperienced and made many poor decisions.
Game 2: Played against a RBU Control deck. Won 2-0. My Opponent was too slow. Couldn't deal with the threats I was playing turn 2-4. His mass removal consisted mainly of Slagstorm. Hero of Bladehold Survived thanks to 4 toughness. Was able to finish the game with Hero.
Game 3: Played a UB artifact deck. Won 2-1. First game I rushed him with creatures and killed him by turn 5. Lost second game after he side boarded cards that helped shut me down. He had a Tezzerat and a Wurmcoil Engine. Would have been able to kill him if not for life gain. Won third game on turn 6. Was able to hit him for 5 damage previously. Then played 2 Mirran Crusadors. Swung with both and played Rally the Peasants with flashback to deal 16 damage. Closest match of the night.
Game 4: Played WU Midrange Control. Lost 0-2. He was able to prevent creatures from hitting play with Mana Leak and Snapcaster Mage. Would kill my stuff with Dismember. And would also early on wipe board with Day of Judgement. Eventually would pull out a Sun Titan, And kill me. My deck could't handle all the creature control. Not having creatures on the field means I am a sitting duck. Couldn't deal with this deck.
gideon is better than elspeth. He helps control aggro, gets rid of annoying creatures, and is a beefy 6/6 for you that can swing into titans without worry of dying from that. Elspeth gets you a few bodies on the field that are small, heals you a little, or wipes the field. Not good in an aggro deck like this one.
You bring up a good point. His 0 ability is very useful. It can get rid of big things without him dying.
I think I might run both. Elspeth will be able to create additional creatures with which to boost with battle cry, while Gideon can force the opponent to attack him thereby allowing a killer swing next turn. The tokens from Elspeth would be able to swing then. What do you think of this idea?
I like this version of the deck... since it is close to what my deck is but if I had more money.
Have you considered Volt Charge... if you are going to get counters on your creatures then you can proliferate them with it and boost your fire power faster
I thought about it. Not sure exactly how often I will be getting the counters on.
22 lands isn't very many.. have you had problems being mana screwed?... your mana curve is much higher than mine going up to the angel.
According to Deckstats.net, the average converted mana cost of my deck is around 2.25. I only have 4 cards with 4 cost or more. 2 are the Hero of Bladehold for 2WW, and then Gideon and Angel for 3WW. The concern I might have now is hitting WW early.
In all, I barely get mana screwed.
Elspeth Tirel is just better than Gideon for this deck... Gideon is a staller card for U/W control not an attacking card that boros burst is.
An Excellent Idea... I definitely think I will work on acquiring a Elspeth. She will likely work better than Gideon. Gaining life will help me last longer and getting three 1/1 soldiers will help push the offensive. THANKS.
although you might want to add more token generators if you go in that direction.... Midnight haunting... gives you fliers which become hard to stop with the massive battle-cry boost and evasion
If I was going the token route, I would splash green for Parallel Lives. Would run 4 Sunpetal Grove to get the Green mana. As it is, my only token generator is Hero of Bladehold.
Thanks for the advice an ideas. . Please keep them coming.
PS: Navuntien: please post your deck. I would be interested in seeing what it is.
The purpose of this deck is to play creatures that will pump each other and increase the damage dealt quickly. Cards like signal pest and Accorder Paladin are quick plays that can buff my other attacking creatures. Hero of Bladehold is a game winner. Having 2-3 battle cry dudes on the field and playing hero on turn 4 means a turn 5 swing will deal a bunch of damage. The soldier tokens will be able to deal 4-5 damage apiece. Then cast Rally the Peasants to further maximize damage. Stormblood Beserker is great when he is a 3/3 that can only be blocked by 2+ creatures. Champion of the Parish will get buffed by most of my creatures (as most of them are humans). Mikeaus gives me another way of pumping up my creatures.
The goal is to have been able to kill the opponent by turn 4-6. In solo testing, this deck was able to constantly do so. My concern is how it will perform when my opponent is also playing spells.
Thinking about adding a Hero of Oxid Ridge. That would help let my creatures connect with my opponent.
Wondering if Curse of Stalked Prey is too slow? It will pump up my creatures if they hit, but it come at the costs of playing more damage dealing spells or creatures. I am thinking about removing it to add another Grand Abolisher and the Hero of Oxid Ridge. Is this a wise idea?
Also, am kinda worried on how to deal with mass removal. A black sun or a day of judgement will ruin my day. I am hoping the grand abolisher will help with that. Any ideas on how to make my creatures more resilient or avoiding getting them wiped?
Deck Idea/Theme: The point of this deck is to play creatures that buff each other's power and then burst through with a ton of damage. Hero of Bladehold will create additional creatures to increase the threat on an opponent. With the Battle Cry from Signal Pest and Accorder Paladin, the tokens created by Hero will be troublesome to deal with. Even Signal pest will be a problem with enough battle cry. Urabrask is in this deck to speed up my creatures and slow down my opponents. Balefire dragon purpose is to hit my opponent and deal lots of damage to his creatures to clear his side of the board. If he hits, he will be dishing out a Miniumum of 6 damage to each of the opponents creatures (probably more from battle cry). Curse of Stalked prey makes any creature that hits bigger and more of a problem.
I have Incinerate and Brimstone Volley to deal with my opponents creatures in order to allow my army to hit. Oblivion Ring is included to deal with permanents that can't be burned or are to big to be burned. Rally the Peasants provides a power boost to further increase the damage dealt.
Hey Redthirst, How exactly did you calculate these percentages. I would like to know how to show a friend as well as evalute my other decks. Seems very usefull to know the probibilty of getting lands on each turn and such. It would be GREATLY APRECIATED.
THANKS
Thanks for the advice. I definitly think I will bump it up to at least 21 lands and axe the bloods.
I will look into acquireing more Hellkites as well.
I just recieved access to the competitive forums. I played a MonoRed Sligh last cycle and had a lot of fun with it. It also won me a few FNM's. I love how fast an aggro red deck plays. With the rotation of Return to Ravnica, I have decided to update my red deck to meet the new standard.
Here is my list and some explanation.
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Vexing Devil
4 Ash Zealot
4 Lightning Mauler
2 Hellrider
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Traitorous Blood
Land
19 Mountain
Deck Strategy: You want to go all out with this deck. You want to put as much pressure on them as fast as you can. Ideally, you want to be full swinging every combat. In an optimal scenario, you can win by turn 4 and still be able to play some supportive burn spells. In this case, you will outrun a supreme verdict. Bottom line: hit as hard and as fast as you can, holding nothing back. I hope to win before a mid-game situation develops. If I get to late game, I have already lost.
Vexing Devil:
Flames of the Firebrand: This spell is an awesome board clearer. It enables you to pick off a bunch of tokens, mana dorks, or chump blockers. Very usefull in getting you creatures able to connect with your opponent.
Traitorous Blood: I am not sure if these should necessarily be mainboarded. It seems good to be able to steal their biggest creature and whack them with it. However, the space may be better used with other cards. Opinions?
Land: I was originally running 22 lands in this deck, but I started to get mana flooded frequently. So I cut back the land count to 19. With this deck having the bulk of its mana cost in the 1-2 range, this shouldn’t be a problem. However, if I have issues with shortages, I probably will take out the traitorous blood and put in 2 more mountains.
As for the sideboard, I have yet to get a final sideboard in place. I will be adapting it as the meta develops. So far, I think the core of my sideboard will be:
2 Pithing Needle
3 Smelt
What are your thoughts. Comments and criticisms would be appreciated. Thanks
I personally happen to have a decent amount of Dual lands already.
I know I have:
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Glacial Fortress
In terms of price. The Core dual lands and Innistrad duels are not that high.
Would this make a Naya deck eaiser to make then?
One of the reasons I started this thread is that the Two competivily capable decks I have (Wu Humans and RDW) seem to have been falling off. Bonfire seems to have butchered these decks.
Keep Ideas flowing. Thanks for all the input. It is benifiting me and anyone else who will look at this thread.
The goal of this thread is to gather ideas on how to make the current competitive deck types easier on the wallet. I want this thread to be a general, all purpose place to gather ideas on how to make this kind of deck. I am hoping for a competitive enougth to be able to win FNM and be in the top
75-100 decks at a bigger tournament if possible.
I am sure some competitive archtypes will lend themselves to being 'bugetized' better than others. If you know of good examples of budget decks. please post links to them in this thread.
The following are two deck types I for sure would like to see discussed.
- Delver
- Naya Aggro
Please feel free to discuss other in order to get more ideas flowing.
I would also like to keep in mind the phasing out of scars block when designing these budget decks. Hopefully the ammount of M12 and Scars cards can be minimal to ease the transistion of one of these decks with the release of Return to Ravnica. I am hoping the decks developed in this thread can be used afther the release of the next few sets with updating as needed.
Rules:
1) No single card in the deck can be over $10.
2) The total price of the deck cannot exceed $100
Thanks. Get to the posting and helping of others be better players. Thanks Again.
I mean no offense in my response.
You think...? I get mana flooded WAY more often then I ever get screwed, in my experience. Is that just a long-running coincidence?
As it is, I only have 2 cards with 4 CMC in mainboard. If I get three mana I can play nearly my entire deck and will still have a good chance of drawing a fourth for hero.
Also, dagger is pretty beastly on mirran crusader. +3/+0 on double strike hits hard. In some ways it could be better than a sword in that you can utilize its effects on mirran crusader earlier.
Also, thalia will hurt my ability to play Oblivion ring and Honor the Pure and Bond of Faith. Why would it still be worth it then?
And Why is Bonds of Faith meh? It is either a pacifism for there stuff or +2/+2 for your stuff. Good target for it is Mirran crusader.
I would agree hood could get replaced. It seemed to be usefull to help my creatures connect with my opponent. I guess I could replace it with a land. Still concerned that I will often flood out, especially later in the game.
Last question... Should I take Mikeaus out? He seems a little slow and takes to long. Thoughts?
Thanks for the comments people. Really Appreciated.
If I were to splash another color, I would splash blue. Then I could run Geist of Saint Traft. But, as it is, it is mono-colored.
I think I am going to keep it mono-white, for now. Still would appreciate comments and criticisms.
I am posting the deck I have been using and am asking for comments and criticisms of it.
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
2 Grand Abolisher
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Fiend Hunter
2 Hero of Bladehold
1 Mikaeus, The Lunarch
4 Gather the Townsfolk
Enchantments
4 Bonds of Faith
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Oblivion Ring
Artifacts
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Executioner's Hood
1 Silver-Inlaid Dagger
20 Plains
2 Nevermore
2 Suture Priest
4 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Gideon Jura
2 Nihil Spellbombs
4 Celestial Purge
I have done very well with this deck so far. I have won FNM 3 times with and and have placed near the top at least a half a dozen times. As such, it seems to work well as is. HOWEVER, it is not without its issues. If I do not get a mirran crusader, hero, doomed traveler. or champion, I have difficulty winning. Also, it has a tendency to flood me with land every now and then.
The idea of this deck is to be aggressive with lower cost creatures yet it still maintains a decent control element to deal with issues so that my hitters can win the game.
Now, come ye yall and post comments on this deck. Please suggest ways it could be improved further. Point out any additional weaknesses and how those can be remedied. I appreciate the criticism, as it will help me become a better player and deck builder.
Thank You.
Game 1: Played against a red deck. Won 2-0. I slaughtered my opponent. On turn 6, I dealt him 50+ damage in one swing. He was unable to deal with the amount of creatures I had on the field. In truth. He was also inexperienced and made many poor decisions.
Game 2: Played against a RBU Control deck. Won 2-0. My Opponent was too slow. Couldn't deal with the threats I was playing turn 2-4. His mass removal consisted mainly of Slagstorm. Hero of Bladehold Survived thanks to 4 toughness. Was able to finish the game with Hero.
Game 3: Played a UB artifact deck. Won 2-1. First game I rushed him with creatures and killed him by turn 5. Lost second game after he side boarded cards that helped shut me down. He had a Tezzerat and a Wurmcoil Engine. Would have been able to kill him if not for life gain. Won third game on turn 6. Was able to hit him for 5 damage previously. Then played 2 Mirran Crusadors. Swung with both and played Rally the Peasants with flashback to deal 16 damage. Closest match of the night.
Game 4: Played WU Midrange Control. Lost 0-2. He was able to prevent creatures from hitting play with Mana Leak and Snapcaster Mage. Would kill my stuff with Dismember. And would also early on wipe board with Day of Judgement. Eventually would pull out a Sun Titan, And kill me. My deck could't handle all the creature control. Not having creatures on the field means I am a sitting duck. Couldn't deal with this deck.
End all, I placed Second.
You bring up a good point. His 0 ability is very useful. It can get rid of big things without him dying.
I think I might run both. Elspeth will be able to create additional creatures with which to boost with battle cry, while Gideon can force the opponent to attack him thereby allowing a killer swing next turn. The tokens from Elspeth would be able to swing then. What do you think of this idea?
I thought about it. Not sure exactly how often I will be getting the counters on.
According to Deckstats.net, the average converted mana cost of my deck is around 2.25. I only have 4 cards with 4 cost or more. 2 are the Hero of Bladehold for 2WW, and then Gideon and Angel for 3WW. The concern I might have now is hitting WW early.
In all, I barely get mana screwed.
An Excellent Idea... I definitely think I will work on acquiring a Elspeth. She will likely work better than Gideon. Gaining life will help me last longer and getting three 1/1 soldiers will help push the offensive. THANKS.
If I was going the token route, I would splash green for Parallel Lives. Would run 4 Sunpetal Grove to get the Green mana. As it is, my only token generator is Hero of Bladehold.
Thanks for the advice an ideas.
PS: Navuntien: please post your deck. I would be interested in seeing what it is.
Here is what I am running next FNM.
4 Signal Pest
2 Champion of the Parish
1 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
4 Accorder Paladin
4 Stormblood Berserker
2 Elite Inquisitor
1 Grand Abolisher
2 Mirran Crusador
2 Hero of Bladehold
1 Angelic Overseer
Instants: 11
3 Incinerate
3 Brimstone Volley
2 Rally the Peasants
3 Gut shot
Enchantments: 4
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Curse of Stalked Prey
Planeswalkers: 1
1 Gideon Jura
12 Plains
5 Mountain
3 Clifftop Retreat
2 Ghost Quarter
The purpose of this deck is to play creatures that will pump each other and increase the damage dealt quickly. Cards like signal pest and Accorder Paladin are quick plays that can buff my other attacking creatures. Hero of Bladehold is a game winner. Having 2-3 battle cry dudes on the field and playing hero on turn 4 means a turn 5 swing will deal a bunch of damage. The soldier tokens will be able to deal 4-5 damage apiece. Then cast Rally the Peasants to further maximize damage.
Stormblood Beserker is great when he is a 3/3 that can only be blocked by 2+ creatures. Champion of the Parish will get buffed by most of my creatures (as most of them are humans). Mikeaus gives me another way of pumping up my creatures.
The goal is to have been able to kill the opponent by turn 4-6. In solo testing, this deck was able to constantly do so. My concern is how it will perform when my opponent is also playing spells.
Thinking about adding a Hero of Oxid Ridge. That would help let my creatures connect with my opponent.
Wondering if Curse of Stalked Prey is too slow? It will pump up my creatures if they hit, but it come at the costs of playing more damage dealing spells or creatures. I am thinking about removing it to add another Grand Abolisher and the Hero of Oxid Ridge. Is this a wise idea?
Also, am kinda worried on how to deal with mass removal. A black sun or a day of judgement will ruin my day. I am hoping the grand abolisher will help with that. Any ideas on how to make my creatures more resilient or avoiding getting them wiped?
Thanks for comments in advance.
4 Signal Pest
4 Accorder Paladin
3 Stormblood Berserker
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Elite Inquisitor
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Wurmcoil Engine [Considering Removing]
1 Vulshok Refugee [Considering Removing]
3 Brimstone Volley
2 Incinerate
2 Rally the Peasants
2 Apostle's Blessing [Considering Removing]
Sorceries:
2 Red Sun's Zenith [Considering Removing]
1 Slagstorm [Considering Remoing]
Enchantments:
2 Curse of the Stalked Prey
1 Oblivion Ring
Artifacts:
2 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Silver-Inlaid Dagger [Considering Removing]
1 Viridian Claw [Considering Removing]
1 Sharpened Pitchfork [Considering Removing]
1 Butcher's Cleaver [Considering Removing]
2 Clifftop Retreat
1 Ghost Quarter
9 Plains
9 Mountain
**(Moved post here from competitive forum)
Deck Idea/Theme: The point of this deck is to play creatures that buff each other's power and then burst through with a ton of damage. Hero of Bladehold will create additional creatures to increase the threat on an opponent. With the Battle Cry from Signal Pest and Accorder Paladin, the tokens created by Hero will be troublesome to deal with. Even Signal pest will be a problem with enough battle cry. Urabrask is in this deck to speed up my creatures and slow down my opponents. Balefire dragon purpose is to hit my opponent and deal lots of damage to his creatures to clear his side of the board. If he hits, he will be dishing out a Miniumum of 6 damage to each of the opponents creatures (probably more from battle cry). Curse of Stalked prey makes any creature that hits bigger and more of a problem.
I have Incinerate and Brimstone Volley to deal with my opponents creatures in order to allow my army to hit. Oblivion Ring is included to deal with permanents that can't be burned or are to big to be burned. Rally the Peasants provides a power boost to further increase the damage dealt.
3 Mirran Crusador
2 Incinerate
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Hero of Oxid Ridge
2 Angelic Overseer
2 Spirit Mantle
What do you think about Vulshok Refugee? Is he a card to include Mainboard?
How useful do you think Apostle's Blessing will be?
Please provide Comments and Constructive Criticism.