Good Job! I also wondered if opts are better than Thought Scour, but i think the synergy with Thought Scour is to good to drop. Hieroglyphic Illumination is a nice option. I also thought about the new Jumpstart Draw 2, since you can mill it with Thought Scour, but its probably to weak.
Could you maybe stream some leagues with the deck and upload it on youtube? Would like to see you playing this deck.
I'm mostly concerned about not having enough fuel for Harvest Pyre, but haven't felt like I'd need more closing speed with the Drakes. We end up having plenty of instants and sorceries the yard anyway. Small sample size though.
played a couple more leagues. Went 3-2, losing to two dredge decks, and then won my second trophy! I added more efficient grave hate to board and experiment with Illuminations.
I dropped the thought scours for Opts, for now. Scours were in the list I copied and they had a couple of nice synergies, but I feel that the deck benefits more from additional card selection.
My two following conp. Leagues went 1-3 and 4-1. New dredge lists are quite powerful, might add a second Surgical to the board in place of the 2nd Rejection.
Glad to see someone else on the Crackling Drake Train. I think Crackling Drake fits perfect into the Deck. You are a Control Deck which can turn around the Corner really quick. Sometimes the Drake just needs 1 attack and you win.
What did you play against?
For me 22 where way to much. I cut a Fetchland and still flood sometimes
How was the Nimble Obstructionist? I play a Shadow of Doubt at the moment since its a pet card of mine, but Nimble makes more sense i guess. Shadow is also on a flex slot and will be cutted i guess
I wanted to have one flying flash threat, so that meant Nimble or Clique. It's crazy but I think Nimble is definitely on par with Clique.
My comp. league MUs were RG Valakut, E-tron, Dredge, BUG Death's Shadow, Bant Spirits.
This deck might not be the best of the best, but it sure is better than my previous deck, Grixis Control. I picked this archetype after seeing the CFB deck feature (Crackling Drake). I made a list that was to my liking, and went 5-0 in friendly and 5-0 in comp leagues consecutively, dropping only three games total. Naturally I had the luck on my side, but Drake felt pretty busted. You can't always afford to tap four mana for a threat, but when you can Drake is absolutely brutal.
I am not sure if to play it or not. In a control heavy meta it is decent, but against aggro decks or going second I found it difficult to use it reasonably other than turn 2 or turn 3 in combination with Sai+Mox. In later stages of the game, it is not necassary and only makes comboing harder.
I've been on no MD rebuke -camp (mostly by myself) for these reasons, but I'm now trying two out. I've searched relentlessly for the best ways to fill the flex slots, and to be honestly everything kind of points to the conclusion that it doesn't matter. We can't play the 5th Sai, Outcome or Ornithopter, so whatever your other cards are doesn't matter that much. With Rebukes you're at least preboarding against control, and they might randomly work with your curve. I'm still off of MD Karns though.
I need to listen to the pocast, but going to 0 Reservoirs is a tough sell. You're making yourself a lot more vulnerable against stuff like Chainwhirler, direct damage and especially fogs.
Baumeister's version with Jhoiras should definitely have an easier time against mono-green - I'm probably going to try her out myself next. I would still like to know how many matches they played against Mono Green before landing on this conclusion. Both Reservoir and Stompy have pretty wild hands sometimes, and based on your luck the MU can feel either unwinnable or unlosable even after a proper playtesting set. Their post-board configuration is pretty loaded on 4's and looks kind of clunky to be honest, but I have to give them the benefit of doubt of course.
It really looks like we are still far away from any sort of consensus. Even the pros' builds vary significantly from each other, and the people playing them claim very different kinds of MUs profiles.
When I said you should play Karns in the MD I was using it as an argument for why it's probably incorrect to board Karn in so much. I'm not actually sure how good MD karns would be, but have no interest in testing it out either rn.
I have yet to hear proper reasoning for why you would bring Karns in against almost every archetype yet not have them in your MD. People keep bringing up "sideboard hate" that people will bring against us, but what is that anyway? Everyone is already maindecking Abrades and Brontodons. Playing Karn against flying threats like Glorybringer seems insane to me.
Against GPG the post board games play out more like your games against UW control. They draw and filter, keep counters open, and target your statuaries. SB Teferis are the biggest issue. Your creatures can easily brickwall early aggression, what matters is winning the counter battles. For this reason Expertise becomes worse. My SB plan has been -1 Sai, -2 Crane, -2 Expertise, +3 negate +1 defeat +1 commit.
Against flame of keld/red(/b) aggro I board out the same way I do against RB: -1 puzzleknot, -1 reverse, -1 expertise, +3 Compass. Commit can be clunky, but it's also a 2-mana timetwister, and these draw effects supplement our plan which makes us lighter on action. Just my take on it. I have a pretty positive opinion of Commit in general.
I don't think it's a good idea to try to beat RB in their own midrange game. I'f you're bringing in Karns in this MU, then why not just MD them? I'm also 99% sure you're never supposed to board in both compass and Karn in the same MU, it really looks like you're super unfocused. My plan, which I happen to like, is simply bringing in 2-3 Compasses (sometimes I bring in only 2 on the play). I cut the one Puzzleknot and Engineer I have, then the 3rd Expertise.
Again not big on Karn here. Grixis usually plays out like a tapout deck, and you actually need to respect their clock. Karns lines up very poorly against Bolas. I like Jace's Defeat and 3rd Commit from my own Board and SB nothing else, for reference.
Mono Green:
IN: 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 2 Aether Meltdown, 1 Exclusion Mage, 2 Time of Ice, 1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
OUT: 2 Glint-Nest Crane, 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 2 Commit // Memory, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Mox Amber, 2 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
GB Constrictor:
IN: 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 1 Exclusion Mage, 2 Time of Ice, 1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
OUT: 2 Glint-Nest Crane, 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 1 Commit // Memory, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot, 1 Mox Amber
Again I'm questioning the inclusion of Karn. Conctrictor has the ability to go WAY over the top with Ballistas and Gearhulks so I don't see the appeal of the midrange plan. In what kind of a game is Karn going to be in goldilocks zone between being winmore or do-nothing?
Mono U Storm:
IN: 3 Negate, 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
OUT: 2 Baral's Expertise, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Mox Amber
Mono Red:
IN: 2 Aether Meltdown, 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 1 Time of Ice, 2 Navigator's Compass, 1 Exclusion Mage, 1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
OUT: 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 2 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot, 2 Commit // Memory, 3 Baral's Expertise, 1 Metallic Rebuke
Boarding Reservoir out here seems Egregious. I'm also not sure about going down to 0 Commits as the card gives you some relief against possible Abrades.
I agree with the Negates, but Exclusion Mage seems so out of place here. My advice is to board out 1-2 Expertises as they become very ineffective in the post board games.
Mono W/B:
IN: 2 Aether Meltdown, 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 1 Exclusion Mage, 2 Time of Ice
OUT: 2 Glint-Nest Crane, 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 1 Mox Amber, 2 Commit // Memory, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
Hi there, I have been testing Storm for a while and following all the streamers and this forum - thank for every insight everybody!
My experience with the monoG matchup is following:
- the best way to win is to go for the fast win, not to try to stall the game with situational answers: Sai cant stop Ghalta, Steel Leaf and Rhonas, Karn is soft to Hearth and other threats unless you have a Sai as well, Meltdown and Unsummon buys time but only a little and you need to gain advantage from the tempo gain (win fast)..
- only reliable answers are those catch all - Expertise and Rivers Rebuke (and Metallic Rebuke to some extend)
- the best way to win is to combo-off
For those reasons I start boarding the way to support combo and also to have access to the big spells (Expertise, Rebuke) at timely manner, which happens to go hand in hand.
The best card I found against monogreen is Jhoira, Captain of Weatherlight. She is absolute blast against deck, that cant remove her, as she makes deck so much better at comboing off. With her, the race is very real, because both decks are basically goldfishing.
Its also very nice to have 4x Expertise before you start adding spot removal, as it lets you get back to game while comboing with Jhoira as well. Rivers Rebuke is basically the 5th Expertise, if you find it neccessary.
To help everything go smoothly, I am adding Baral to the Mix (lets you cast your good spells turn earlier and activates Mox as well). With him + Mox, you can cast Expertise on turn 3 if needed.. and you are not so reliant to Statuary.
Playing this strategy gave me the best results so far and I made me feel comfortable with the matchup, because monoG cant ever beat my best openning while I could beat theirs. Anyway I think, that being just slightly favored is the most we can get.
I think this is probably close to the truth, and I've been thinking about siding less and being more focused in the post board games. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on Jhoira as well, even though I've always hated the idea of splashes.
Been watching a lot of video's the last 4 weeks or so from both DiabloXSC as Tiemuuu (Hi Tiemuuu!) and I'm bringing the deck to GP Brussels this weekend. I'm still in the midst of figuring out what the SB should look like. The way I see it, aggro on a nut-draw ofc brings us a hard time, but can be winnable. Like most discussions I find, also here, Mono-G will give us a hard time no matter what they draw it seems.
So how do we play against Mono-G? More importantly, regarding the SB, do we find more value in Aether Meltdown shutting their big guys down, probably causing them to be unable to cast Ghalta since they lack the power to make his cost cheaper, or are we bouncing with Unsummon or Exclusion Mage, making them cast their creatures again and again, leaving a blocker and go for that way?
I'm not sold on The Antiquities War although I see others (Raphael Levy for example) boarding it in against RB, Grixis and Control decks. Is it really that good? I assume it's to overwhelm your opponent with the #3 on The Antiquities War where they lack answers to all of our attackers and dig+draw on the #1/#2 abilities?
Others I hear about Time of Ice, but that sounds even less impressive to me actually, especially Mono-G with Blossoming Defense, or is that just my feeling and the card is awesome?
Cheers,
DC
Honestly, I have no clue how I should SB against Stompy. From my experience so many things can go wrong. Cards like Unsummon and Meltdown are great at slowing down the Steel Leaf nut draws, but are lacking against the more mediocre Scrounger/Champion draws where it would be better to have your g1 cards in instead. Padeem on the curve can be amazing, but it's a horrible topdeck when you are looking for immediate impact. River's Rebuke can turn a hopeless situation into a win, but is it too optimistic to assume that you can have your Statuary stick or that you survive until your turn 6?
Anyone having any better success vs aggro? I’ve switched back to a more all in version but I’m still losing more to aggro then winning.
I really would love to play this at GPLA but I can’t unless I’ve got closer to 50/50 vs aggro as aggro is roughly 60% of the meta.
I saw Zan Syed running tempest and zahid in the board, not sure how well it works but I’m going to try that too.
Exclusion mage was not super impressive to me, aether meltdown was more effective.
Against Rx I've found Compass to do enough lifting. Against Flame of Keld it's absolutely crucial, and it also helps against the midrangy Rb builds even though the presence of discard spells means you're making yourself more vulnerable to flooding in a meaningful way.
I've faced a lot less Stompy on leagues than before so I don't have that much data to work with, but I'm still on Unsummons. I'm pretty happy with Padeem as well, Karn less so. I just can't seem to make him work for me, every time it feels like a win more card.
I have recently played with 19 lands, 4 Sais and more Reverse Engineers, but went back to list. I've had harder time winning since people have started to metagame for this deck on mtgo, although funnily I just won my second trophy with this list (MUs were Flame of Keld, 2x RB aggro, mono b zombies, uw gift).
Anyone having any better success vs aggro? I’ve switched back to a more all in version but I’m still losing more to aggro then winning.
I really would love to play this at GPLA but I can’t unless I’ve got closer to 50/50 vs aggro as aggro is roughly 60% of the meta.
I saw Zan Syed running tempest and zahid in the board, not sure how well it works but I’m going to try that too.
Exclusion mage was not super impressive to me, aether meltdown was more effective.
Against Rx I've found Compass to do enough lifting. Against Flame of Keld it's absolutely crucial, and it also helps against the midrangy Rb builds even though the presence of discard spells means you're making yourself more vulnerable to flooding in a meaningful way.
I've faced a lot less Stompy on leagues than before so I don't have that much data to work with, but I'm still on Unsummons. I'm pretty happy with Padeem as well, Karn less so. I just can't seem to make him work for me, every time it feels like a win more card.
I'm mostly concerned about not having enough fuel for Harvest Pyre, but haven't felt like I'd need more closing speed with the Drakes. We end up having plenty of instants and sorceries the yard anyway. Small sample size though.
I'll definitely upload some gameplay soon.
My two following conp. Leagues went 1-3 and 4-1. New dredge lists are quite powerful, might add a second Surgical to the board in place of the 2nd Rejection.
I have only minimal testing under my belt atm, but I don't hate the burn MU.
As for the list, it's hard to say how to improve it after a perfect 10-0 match record. SB pyroclasm could be EE, not sure.
I wanted to have one flying flash threat, so that meant Nimble or Clique. It's crazy but I think Nimble is definitely on par with Clique.
My comp. league MUs were RG Valakut, E-tron, Dredge, BUG Death's Shadow, Bant Spirits.
I've been on no MD rebuke -camp (mostly by myself) for these reasons, but I'm now trying two out. I've searched relentlessly for the best ways to fill the flex slots, and to be honestly everything kind of points to the conclusion that it doesn't matter. We can't play the 5th Sai, Outcome or Ornithopter, so whatever your other cards are doesn't matter that much. With Rebukes you're at least preboarding against control, and they might randomly work with your curve. I'm still off of MD Karns though.
Baumeister's version with Jhoiras should definitely have an easier time against mono-green - I'm probably going to try her out myself next. I would still like to know how many matches they played against Mono Green before landing on this conclusion. Both Reservoir and Stompy have pretty wild hands sometimes, and based on your luck the MU can feel either unwinnable or unlosable even after a proper playtesting set. Their post-board configuration is pretty loaded on 4's and looks kind of clunky to be honest, but I have to give them the benefit of doubt of course.
It really looks like we are still far away from any sort of consensus. Even the pros' builds vary significantly from each other, and the people playing them claim very different kinds of MUs profiles.
Against GPG the post board games play out more like your games against UW control. They draw and filter, keep counters open, and target your statuaries. SB Teferis are the biggest issue. Your creatures can easily brickwall early aggression, what matters is winning the counter battles. For this reason Expertise becomes worse. My SB plan has been -1 Sai, -2 Crane, -2 Expertise, +3 negate +1 defeat +1 commit.
Against flame of keld/red(/b) aggro I board out the same way I do against RB: -1 puzzleknot, -1 reverse, -1 expertise, +3 Compass. Commit can be clunky, but it's also a 2-mana timetwister, and these draw effects supplement our plan which makes us lighter on action. Just my take on it. I have a pretty positive opinion of Commit in general.
I don't think it's a good idea to try to beat RB in their own midrange game. I'f you're bringing in Karns in this MU, then why not just MD them? I'm also 99% sure you're never supposed to board in both compass and Karn in the same MU, it really looks like you're super unfocused. My plan, which I happen to like, is simply bringing in 2-3 Compasses (sometimes I bring in only 2 on the play). I cut the one Puzzleknot and Engineer I have, then the 3rd Expertise.
Again not big on Karn here. Grixis usually plays out like a tapout deck, and you actually need to respect their clock. Karns lines up very poorly against Bolas. I like Jace's Defeat and 3rd Commit from my own Board and SB nothing else, for reference.
Again I'm questioning the inclusion of Karn. Conctrictor has the ability to go WAY over the top with Ballistas and Gearhulks so I don't see the appeal of the midrange plan. In what kind of a game is Karn going to be in goldilocks zone between being winmore or do-nothing?
Boarding Reservoir out here seems Egregious. I'm also not sure about going down to 0 Commits as the card gives you some relief against possible Abrades.
I agree with the Negates, but Exclusion Mage seems so out of place here. My advice is to board out 1-2 Expertises as they become very ineffective in the post board games.
I think this is probably close to the truth, and I've been thinking about siding less and being more focused in the post board games. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on Jhoira as well, even though I've always hated the idea of splashes.
Honestly, I have no clue how I should SB against Stompy. From my experience so many things can go wrong. Cards like Unsummon and Meltdown are great at slowing down the Steel Leaf nut draws, but are lacking against the more mediocre Scrounger/Champion draws where it would be better to have your g1 cards in instead. Padeem on the curve can be amazing, but it's a horrible topdeck when you are looking for immediate impact. River's Rebuke can turn a hopeless situation into a win, but is it too optimistic to assume that you can have your Statuary stick or that you survive until your turn 6?
https://puu.sh/B9xSv/75c6672370.png
I have recently played with 19 lands, 4 Sais and more Reverse Engineers, but went back to list. I've had harder time winning since people have started to metagame for this deck on mtgo, although funnily I just won my second trophy with this list (MUs were Flame of Keld, 2x RB aggro, mono b zombies, uw gift).
Against Rx I've found Compass to do enough lifting. Against Flame of Keld it's absolutely crucial, and it also helps against the midrangy Rb builds even though the presence of discard spells means you're making yourself more vulnerable to flooding in a meaningful way.
I've faced a lot less Stompy on leagues than before so I don't have that much data to work with, but I'm still on Unsummons. I'm pretty happy with Padeem as well, Karn less so. I just can't seem to make him work for me, every time it feels like a win more card.