What type of GY hate are people running? I haven't been a fan of Grafdigger's Cage (Hurts Lingering Souls and isn't effective against Living End). We obviously can't run RIP. And Nihil Spellbomb is great, but a one-of shot.
I've been contemplating running [[Wheel of Sun and Moon]]. Enchant Player, so we still get our GY. Hoses Dredge, Living End and Abzan (until they find their Pridemage). I also run 2 Hallowed Moonlight in the side (hits coco, eldritch, nahiri, collected company).
I think that Sorin, Solemn Visitor fits better in this deck than Elspeth, Knight-Errant. Life gain ability is useful and 2/2 flying token is also relevant a lot of times. Not to mention that Sorin works great with Lingering Souls.
Honestly, I really like Sorin. He's a great card - I don't like him mainboard though. He's too... specialized in one thing. He's a terrible threat on his own because his token production is a minus ability and it puts him within bolt range. Last night Elspeth AND Garruk were disgustingly good. Garruk more than pulled his weight and was relevant in every game I played him. Deathtouch wolves killed 3 Goyfs and a Knight against Naya Zoo. He killed a bob and then wasn't Abrupt Decay'd by Jund. He tutored for multiple rhinos...
Elspeth was also disgustingly good. I got to Flying Trample Rhino for lethal, I got a board stall and she won via Emblem. Usually, these were times where Sorin would have made a token - chumped, made a token and been useless. Sorin did actually get me a win via Abyss Emblem against Naya who dropped a worship game 3 against me. I think I'm going to keep him in the sideboard and keep both Garruk and Elspeth in for now (probably up her to 2).
Anguished unmaking sat in my hand dead against Burn Game 1. But, every other matchup it dealt with something at instant speed that was going to cost me at least 3 life to a swing. Versatility was used - it killed Goyf, Anafenza (Path/Abrupt able) killed a Goblin Dark Dwellers (Pathable only) and a Liliana of the Veil at 5 (top deck for the win). So far, been a solid catch all answer to everything. And instant speed was good.
I sided out Avacyn each matchup (except Jund where I never saw her). But, I also played Naya Small Zoo, Nayza Big Zoo, Jund and Abzan Company - so only 1 of those matchups she's good. I probably should have kept in her against Big Zoo - but that's the game where I ulted 2 planeswalkers and had a Garruk Relentless at 15 loyalty... ******* worship.
Love this deck - if they ever print another good white token maker planeswalker at 3... It'll be disgusting.
I'm in Toronto - which means that U will be out in force going forward.... as shown evident by F2F's most recent 1k modern tournament which had 6/8 decks be U (although Infect doesn't really count).
Now, I'm trying something a little different with this list and embracing the fact that Junk's curve goes bigger. I've reduced Tasigur, mostly because remand is a blowout to him - I still like the card and he may get his other spot back. But, in the meantime I've replaced a bit of my higher end with frustrating to play cards that give me semi-card advantage. Plus, I feel that eventually they'll print such broken walkers that the difference between Jund vs Junk is that.
Explanation of some cards:
Archangel Avacyn - This card is real good. Flash is great against UW. Indestructible is great against 1-1 removal from Grixis & Jund. Plus, she's actually a real strong beater.
Westvale - I probably wont be flipping him unless someone is blowing up my spirit tokens. In which case, why not? If someone isn't playing Path - they make not have a good way to deal with him. Plus, if he connects he's an 18 lifepoint swing. Also, I think I'll probably just use him as a slow value engine to produce tokens.
Garruk - He'll be another Elspeth whenever I get her, but for know the new CMC Flip change makes him not weak to Abrupt. Semi-Removal and a token generator - I'm fine with this.
Elspeth - She's a house. Generates card advantage via Tokens. Makes things huge to deal with board stalls. Flying, Trample 7/8 Rhino is a beast. Doesn't die to Bolt/Path like Gideon.
Anguished Unmaking - I like versatility. I like not having to worry that I'm sitting in hand with a Path vs a Thopter Engine. An Abrupt vs a Tasigur. I don't mind paying 3 life to kill a Keranos if someone uses it. It's a maindeck instant answer to something if I need it. I'll pay life for that.
Imp's Mischief - I'll take that AV of yours. Redirect your Truths or make you Thoughtseize yourself. It may be bad - but I'll try it out. The spot is reserved for some sort of a card draw right now.
Visions being unbanned is good news for the format honestly. It's just really bad for us :/ Sometimes I think Junk just needs to turn into less jundless bolt and into value creatures/walkers.
I've already shared my opinion on this card and I don't think it fits GBx midrange decks. Whether it is Junk or Jund these decks don't want a tutor but rather play another creature, removal or something else instead. Drawing a creature itself is almost always better than tutoring for it since why would you spend mana on searching for something rather than just play that card itself. It also can't tutor for removal if you need it and in this case it's like I said better to play that removal.
I personally don't understand this argument. Yes, everyone would like to draw the exact right card at the exact right moment. "I'd rather draw another creature" - sure but would you want to draw any creature or the best one to fit the current board state. And, their has been plenty of times where I'm sitting with tons of removal in hand against a deck hoping to top deck a creature. That's exactly what this card is used for - the purpose of giving us the ability to go find the best creature in our deck.
Also, we have no control over the top of our deck. This primarily takes a place of a draw spell rather than more removal. I'd say it cuts into one for consistency in the midrange war. It reminds me of Green Sun's Zenith - only obviously less powerful early game.
I may have missed the conversation - but what is everyone's thoughts on Traverse the Ulvenwald. Obviously this card is much better later then before you have delerium on. But, I mean - it's not too hard to turn it on. I wouldn't say, alter my deck to make it easier to turn on (Bitterblossom, Mishra's Bauble). But, I think just playing magic will turn it on. Instant/Sorcery/Land is pretty easy to hit in our own graveyard. Creature sometimes is an issue considering we run less then Jund for example (and especially ones that die to bolt like bob). But, it's not impossible. Early game it fetches a colour fixing, allows us to keep greedier hands and run less land heavy (23). Late game, it allows us to go find a creature (Rhino, Ooze, Goyf + Sideboard 1-ofs (Sigarda, Thragtusk, Teeg) or a utility land (Like Vault).
It requires the same deck-building philosophy as Oath of Nissa (-1 removal, creature, land, sorcery). Gives us fixing and a potential tutor, for the low cost of 1 mana. Thoughts?
Okay... Been on the fence for a long time about Abzan Midrange. Seriously considering taking the plunge. A few things I want to understand...
1. How necessary is Lili of the Veil to the deck? I see some run 4x and others run 1x. Does the number of Lili's in the deck fundamentally change the overall strategy?
1a. Other planeswalkers worth considering? I'm thinking of a kinda Superfriends build, with one each of Lili, Sorin SV, Garruk Relentless, and Elspeth KE.
2. Bob vs Tasigur... You don't really want to run both, do you? Which way is more favorable overall? (Side note: I also play Delver and thinking I'd want to run one in Delver and one in Abzan.)
3. Painful Truths... Is a legit card. I play it in Abzan Nic Fit. Where does it fit in Modern Abzan?
4. Manlands... We got WB and BG manlands with BFZ/OGW. Which do we prefer? Are they specific to certain builds (Bob/Tasigur, # of Lili's, etc)?
5. Anyone here also play Legacy Abzan Deathblade? I'd like to hear your thoughts on building a "convertible" double-deck box to flip between Modern and Legacy Abzan. (It's a thing I do... UR Delver, Affinity, Elves).
1. I think Lily is a necessity. She's probably the best card in the deck. Removal, combo disruption and can seriously just win you games. The strongest play in Goyf + Lily or Rhino + Lily. I think 3 is optimal, because she's not great in multiples (Except for the -2, +1. Play New one +1).
1A. I'm testing adding in two other walkers mainboard, but I've also an advocate for Oath of Nissa (which make change to Traverse the Ulvanwald). I'm thinking of adding these as sources of pseudo card-advantage instead of typical draw. These may replace Tasigurs. Walkers I'm considering are Gideon AoZ, Elspeth KE, Ob Nix and I have Sorin Solemn & Elspeth Sun's champion in the sideboard. I'm debating right now between Elspeth KE & Gideon primarily... these havent been tested as im still getting the cards but thought experiments.
2. Tasigur has been unimpressive to me lately, but for some reason Toronto still has played runnning playsets of remands... Everywhere I go. Bob is a good card, risky but good. Personally, I don' play bobs in Modern Abzan because the whole point of our deck is to be the tad bit grindier and less liberal with our life. Plus, our manabase is more painful.
3. Truths is a great card. I'm on the mindset that the format is going to be fast out of the gate, so I don't think it'll be well positioned right now. However, in the grindy matchups - it's great. I run Oaths as a substitute (plus they're cheaper cmc) much less versatile and only card selection over advantage.
4. I run 1 of each. Wildwood is great cause it survives against Resto/Clique/Bolt. Vents is good for when your life is low, 2/3 is much worse than 2/4 sadly. And Quagmire is the worst... but he kills something or gets in for 2 damage a turn. I run a Vault of the Archangel because its the ultimate trump card in any close matchup - one swing is usually a lifegain swing of too much to come back of, even if they dont take damage.
5. I run Abzan Stoneblade in legacy. I enjoy it. I'm not buying Blue dual lands... I play a rhinoless version in legacy. So I run 3 Lily, 4 Goyf, 4 Deathrite, 4 SFM and 4 Bobs (some lists run KoTR). Deck is very fun. You lose to t1/t2 combo and you're storm matchup isn't great. But, you have a great fair matchup and the slower combo decks you can rip to pieces with Hymns/Thoughtseizes and Lily. Plus, every card in that deck is great - It's not tier 1... but it's 100% playable in my eyes. You also get access to the best hate cards in the board. Thalia, Containment Priest, Choke, Ethersworn and Teeg.
I really like Flaying Tendrils. I use Golgari Charm in my sideboard for versatility. But that's our black Anger of the Gods, which can outright wreck them.
What a hilarious ******* card, synergies well with Courser, Fetches and Oath. I wish it was a Titania though where you get back something even if she's dealt with - if you have a fetch you can at least draw a card.
Well, I am expecting an aggro heavy meta post-ban so I think Sorin will be better than Gideon for the time being. After the meta settles, maybe Gideon is a better maindeck card than Sorin. But if Gideon is main decked, then I firmly believe we should be running 4 Lingering Souls.
In regards to Jeskai decks running Visions, I think the main difference is the fact that Visions still lets you dig for answers while Oath does not. Need a Wrath? Spot Removal? Land? A threat? Visions doesn't discriminate. With an aggro heavy meta, we become the control deck. Digging for Tarmogoyfs and Kitchen Finks aren't as useful when you're shipping the Abrupt Decays and Paths to the bottom vs. Infect and Affinity. At least Serum Visions can pick and choose what you need at that time. Our deck doesn't have the toolbox in our creatures that are necessary to utilize Oath to where not being able to hit non-creature spells can be ignored.
I've goldfished a couple games with Oath and I feel like the variance is high. Sure, it can dig for that one land that was otherwise a questionable keep in terms of how many lands you've kept. But out of 100 games, would it have been better to top deck Lingering Souls, Maelstrom Pulse, Abzan Charm, etc? I believe so.
In the end, Oath only digs for threats in a deck that is full of threats AND answers. Shaving 1 land, 1 Lingering Souls (best card in the deck IMO), and 2 removal spells to me isn't worth the card selection.
Overall, I am glad Oath is working out for you. However, I feel like Oath wiffing on potential answers when needed is what deters me from sleeving it up.
Fair enough. Although, if you're expecting an aggressive meta off the bat. Painful Truths and Abzan Charm are pretty awful mainboard, uncastable even. As I said - I think souls is the best card in the deck as well. So, I may go back up to 4 Souls, cutting potentially something. I'll leave that to people better at the game then me. I'm hoping that Edel posts something soon about his decision.
Am I just undervaluing card selection? I might just pick up a playset of Oath and test it tomorrow at my modern night. I also noticed your list does not run Shriekmaw. Are you considering it?
In regards to Nissa and Gideon, I dont like them to be honest. You want them because they make your Lingering Souls bigger, but you only run 3 copies. Nissa just seems bad in general and Id rather run Sorin, Solemn Visitor instead of Gideon because of life gain and makes an evasive token.
You may be under valuing selection or I may be over valuing it. Personslly, if Oath didn't cost 1 I wouldn't run it. That's my issue with the card draw spells, is they are pricy as *****. Any version of America runs Visions, while it's not a great card - it's the best selection they have. And they run that over actual draw spells like Sphinx or Think Twice.
I should probably run a copy of Shriekmaw - but I'm not sure a 1 of is good enough to run a suboptimal card. You're right about Nissa/Gideon. I don't think it's better than Solem Visitor though. Visitor has always been lack luster to me. I think he's alright. But a lot of times I need a board for him to be effective. A lot of the times in a grindy matchup I run him out make a vamp and he dies to a bolt or electrolyze. That's why I like Gideon mainboard.
Solemn is still the best Walker against burn though and would probably stay a sideboard card.
There's a few cards that we would run for straight card draw: Painful Truths (Just Draw), Abzan Charm (Versatility), Bob (Threat + Draw). Each of these cards have their own merits. Truths draws 3 cards, which is great but sometimes slow. Usually this is our entire turn midgame (t3-7) as it's cost makes it harder for us to cast more spells, especially if we were struggling on lands. The lifeloss is relevant sometimes. Abzan Charm is either a removal spell or draw - I've always liked this card, 3 for 2 cards is on the pricy side but instant speed and its versatility makes me okay with this - it does mean you need to run 24 lands though. Bob, while he's probably the best draw and I'd run him 100% if our curve wasnt so high. Jund players sometimes kill themselves with it and they have access to the fast land to make their manabase less painful.
The way I look at it is this, Oath gives us a selection spell for free (land), we don't actually lose a creature due to the selection, the rest come down to playstyle. Lingering Souls is the best card in the deck, so I was hesitant to cut it as well - I may still run 4. But there are some games where you draw 2 in your opening hand and cry because they're so slow. Lastly, a removal spell - this is a sacrifice, I will admit. But, unless your running Abzan Charm you're going to sacrifice a removal spell for a draw spell anyways.
I really enjoyed the added flexibility of on t3/4 to cast Oath + Goyf/Ooze/Removal instead of a Rhino, just to sculpt my hand and see what was coming up. The one reason I'm contemplating throwing Nissa/Gideon into the deck is just because of Oath. Planeswalkers are natural card advantage and I don't mind losing legit draw for them. Nissa is probably bad to be honest, but I could easily see a 1-2 copy of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in the deck.
It was disgustingly good... I've never wanted to see a card to much early in the game. Just so I can keep 2-3 land hands and not feel bad. And late game it was probably one of the cards I wanted to draw most because it would allow me to get a bit of card selection. It whiffed twice out of 8 or 9 times casting it tonight. Which was fine, I was looking for a threat not a removal spell at the time. Most of the time it hit a land - which was also fine because it allowed me to dig further into my deck for threats. Once it revealed a Rhino for lethal. And once the fact that I had enchantment in the GY made me large enough to swing for lethal over two turns.
I faced UWR Control/Tempo, Living End, Affinity and Jund. I got super lucky against Living End though.
On a side note... there have been two cards I've been thinking about all night. I think it's because i'm a crackpot - but they are Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Lingering Souls won most of my games tonight for me. Nissa while not the best gives 0/1 blockers to protect herself and gives a huge boost in power to Lingering Souls, Rhino (trades with Rhinos/Goyfs) and Goyfs. One of the biggest things in the mirror or against any deck running Goyfs - sometimes you just board stall. I absolutely love anything that makes my dudes bigger or allows them to get through (Like Vault of the Archangel or Sorin [And I think Arlin Kord is an amazing card]). Now the reason I like these two cards, especially with Oath - is that in a stall game Gideon usually wins you the game and Nissa doubles your Lingering Souls power in the air. Going late game Souls/Flashback Souls, next turn Nissa -2 swing for 8 FORCES people to either make bad chump blocks or forces them to waste their removal on spirits. I think I'm a crack addict - but I'm really thinking of going -2 Tasigur, -1 Courser for +2 Nissa +1 Gideon. Thoughts?
I mean - for everyone discussing the T1 Oath... You aren't going to fetch/shock to play Oath T1, especially if you have a better play. You may do it if you kept a land-light hand though with an Abrupt T2. The reason I like Oath is because it's a great topdeck. You simply cycle to see what you want to see. You can't control the top of your deck, so if you whiff on an Oath 'when you need removal'. It's just as likely for you to draw one next turn. Oath allows us a bit of card selection late game. It's fine in multiples and also allows us to keep less painful hands if we need to cast Lily on T3. I like Edel's idea of cutting one of each type for it: Land, Creature, Removal, Token Generator.
I've been contemplating running [[Wheel of Sun and Moon]]. Enchant Player, so we still get our GY. Hoses Dredge, Living End and Abzan (until they find their Pridemage). I also run 2 Hallowed Moonlight in the side (hits coco, eldritch, nahiri, collected company).
This is my list:
2x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
1x Shambling Vent
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
1x Twilight Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Thoughtseize
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Abzan Charm
4x Path to Exile
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2x Flaying Tendrils
2x Hallowed Moonlight
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Languish
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Stony Silence
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Honestly, I really like Sorin. He's a great card - I don't like him mainboard though. He's too... specialized in one thing. He's a terrible threat on his own because his token production is a minus ability and it puts him within bolt range. Last night Elspeth AND Garruk were disgustingly good. Garruk more than pulled his weight and was relevant in every game I played him. Deathtouch wolves killed 3 Goyfs and a Knight against Naya Zoo. He killed a bob and then wasn't Abrupt Decay'd by Jund. He tutored for multiple rhinos...
Elspeth was also disgustingly good. I got to Flying Trample Rhino for lethal, I got a board stall and she won via Emblem. Usually, these were times where Sorin would have made a token - chumped, made a token and been useless. Sorin did actually get me a win via Abyss Emblem against Naya who dropped a worship game 3 against me. I think I'm going to keep him in the sideboard and keep both Garruk and Elspeth in for now (probably up her to 2).
Anguished unmaking sat in my hand dead against Burn Game 1. But, every other matchup it dealt with something at instant speed that was going to cost me at least 3 life to a swing. Versatility was used - it killed Goyf, Anafenza (Path/Abrupt able) killed a Goblin Dark Dwellers (Pathable only) and a Liliana of the Veil at 5 (top deck for the win). So far, been a solid catch all answer to everything. And instant speed was good.
I sided out Avacyn each matchup (except Jund where I never saw her). But, I also played Naya Small Zoo, Nayza Big Zoo, Jund and Abzan Company - so only 1 of those matchups she's good. I probably should have kept in her against Big Zoo - but that's the game where I ulted 2 planeswalkers and had a Garruk Relentless at 15 loyalty... ******* worship.
Love this deck - if they ever print another good white token maker planeswalker at 3... It'll be disgusting.
Now, I'm trying something a little different with this list and embracing the fact that Junk's curve goes bigger. I've reduced Tasigur, mostly because remand is a blowout to him - I still like the card and he may get his other spot back. But, in the meantime I've replaced a bit of my higher end with frustrating to play cards that give me semi-card advantage. Plus, I feel that eventually they'll print such broken walkers that the difference between Jund vs Junk is that.
Here's the list:
1x Archangel Avacyn Flip
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sorcery (11)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Thoughtseize
Instant (8)
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Anguished Unmaking
4x Path to Exile
Planeswalker (5)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Garruk Relentless Flip
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Forest
1x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Shambling Vent
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Temple Garden
1x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Westvale Abbey
1x Vault of the Archangel
2x Golgari Charm
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Imp's Mischief / Painful Truths
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Languish
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Stony Silence
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Explanation of some cards:
Archangel Avacyn - This card is real good. Flash is great against UW. Indestructible is great against 1-1 removal from Grixis & Jund. Plus, she's actually a real strong beater.
Westvale - I probably wont be flipping him unless someone is blowing up my spirit tokens. In which case, why not? If someone isn't playing Path - they make not have a good way to deal with him. Plus, if he connects he's an 18 lifepoint swing. Also, I think I'll probably just use him as a slow value engine to produce tokens.
Garruk - He'll be another Elspeth whenever I get her, but for know the new CMC Flip change makes him not weak to Abrupt. Semi-Removal and a token generator - I'm fine with this.
Elspeth - She's a house. Generates card advantage via Tokens. Makes things huge to deal with board stalls. Flying, Trample 7/8 Rhino is a beast. Doesn't die to Bolt/Path like Gideon.
Anguished Unmaking - I like versatility. I like not having to worry that I'm sitting in hand with a Path vs a Thopter Engine. An Abrupt vs a Tasigur. I don't mind paying 3 life to kill a Keranos if someone uses it. It's a maindeck instant answer to something if I need it. I'll pay life for that.
Imp's Mischief - I'll take that AV of yours. Redirect your Truths or make you Thoughtseize yourself. It may be bad - but I'll try it out. The spot is reserved for some sort of a card draw right now.
I personally don't understand this argument. Yes, everyone would like to draw the exact right card at the exact right moment. "I'd rather draw another creature" - sure but would you want to draw any creature or the best one to fit the current board state. And, their has been plenty of times where I'm sitting with tons of removal in hand against a deck hoping to top deck a creature. That's exactly what this card is used for - the purpose of giving us the ability to go find the best creature in our deck.
Also, we have no control over the top of our deck. This primarily takes a place of a draw spell rather than more removal. I'd say it cuts into one for consistency in the midrange war. It reminds me of Green Sun's Zenith - only obviously less powerful early game.
It requires the same deck-building philosophy as Oath of Nissa (-1 removal, creature, land, sorcery). Gives us fixing and a potential tutor, for the low cost of 1 mana. Thoughts?
1. I think Lily is a necessity. She's probably the best card in the deck. Removal, combo disruption and can seriously just win you games. The strongest play in Goyf + Lily or Rhino + Lily. I think 3 is optimal, because she's not great in multiples (Except for the -2, +1. Play New one +1).
1A. I'm testing adding in two other walkers mainboard, but I've also an advocate for Oath of Nissa (which make change to Traverse the Ulvanwald). I'm thinking of adding these as sources of pseudo card-advantage instead of typical draw. These may replace Tasigurs. Walkers I'm considering are Gideon AoZ, Elspeth KE, Ob Nix and I have Sorin Solemn & Elspeth Sun's champion in the sideboard. I'm debating right now between Elspeth KE & Gideon primarily... these havent been tested as im still getting the cards but thought experiments.
2. Tasigur has been unimpressive to me lately, but for some reason Toronto still has played runnning playsets of remands... Everywhere I go. Bob is a good card, risky but good. Personally, I don' play bobs in Modern Abzan because the whole point of our deck is to be the tad bit grindier and less liberal with our life. Plus, our manabase is more painful.
3. Truths is a great card. I'm on the mindset that the format is going to be fast out of the gate, so I don't think it'll be well positioned right now. However, in the grindy matchups - it's great. I run Oaths as a substitute (plus they're cheaper cmc) much less versatile and only card selection over advantage.
4. I run 1 of each. Wildwood is great cause it survives against Resto/Clique/Bolt. Vents is good for when your life is low, 2/3 is much worse than 2/4 sadly. And Quagmire is the worst... but he kills something or gets in for 2 damage a turn. I run a Vault of the Archangel because its the ultimate trump card in any close matchup - one swing is usually a lifegain swing of too much to come back of, even if they dont take damage.
5. I run Abzan Stoneblade in legacy. I enjoy it. I'm not buying Blue dual lands... I play a rhinoless version in legacy. So I run 3 Lily, 4 Goyf, 4 Deathrite, 4 SFM and 4 Bobs (some lists run KoTR). Deck is very fun. You lose to t1/t2 combo and you're storm matchup isn't great. But, you have a great fair matchup and the slower combo decks you can rip to pieces with Hymns/Thoughtseizes and Lily. Plus, every card in that deck is great - It's not tier 1... but it's 100% playable in my eyes. You also get access to the best hate cards in the board. Thalia, Containment Priest, Choke, Ethersworn and Teeg.
Hope that helps
What a hilarious ******* card, synergies well with Courser, Fetches and Oath. I wish it was a Titania though where you get back something even if she's dealt with - if you have a fetch you can at least draw a card.
Fair enough. Although, if you're expecting an aggressive meta off the bat. Painful Truths and Abzan Charm are pretty awful mainboard, uncastable even. As I said - I think souls is the best card in the deck as well. So, I may go back up to 4 Souls, cutting potentially something. I'll leave that to people better at the game then me. I'm hoping that Edel posts something soon about his decision.
You may be under valuing selection or I may be over valuing it. Personslly, if Oath didn't cost 1 I wouldn't run it. That's my issue with the card draw spells, is they are pricy as *****. Any version of America runs Visions, while it's not a great card - it's the best selection they have. And they run that over actual draw spells like Sphinx or Think Twice.
I should probably run a copy of Shriekmaw - but I'm not sure a 1 of is good enough to run a suboptimal card. You're right about Nissa/Gideon. I don't think it's better than Solem Visitor though. Visitor has always been lack luster to me. I think he's alright. But a lot of times I need a board for him to be effective. A lot of the times in a grindy matchup I run him out make a vamp and he dies to a bolt or electrolyze. That's why I like Gideon mainboard.
Solemn is still the best Walker against burn though and would probably stay a sideboard card.
The way I look at it is this, Oath gives us a selection spell for free (land), we don't actually lose a creature due to the selection, the rest come down to playstyle. Lingering Souls is the best card in the deck, so I was hesitant to cut it as well - I may still run 4. But there are some games where you draw 2 in your opening hand and cry because they're so slow. Lastly, a removal spell - this is a sacrifice, I will admit. But, unless your running Abzan Charm you're going to sacrifice a removal spell for a draw spell anyways.
I really enjoyed the added flexibility of on t3/4 to cast Oath + Goyf/Ooze/Removal instead of a Rhino, just to sculpt my hand and see what was coming up. The one reason I'm contemplating throwing Nissa/Gideon into the deck is just because of Oath. Planeswalkers are natural card advantage and I don't mind losing legit draw for them. Nissa is probably bad to be honest, but I could easily see a 1-2 copy of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in the deck.
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
1x Shambling Vent
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
1x Twilight Mire
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Courser of Kruphix
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Path to Exile
4x Oath of Nissa
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Golgari Charm
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Languish
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Stony Silence
It was disgustingly good... I've never wanted to see a card to much early in the game. Just so I can keep 2-3 land hands and not feel bad. And late game it was probably one of the cards I wanted to draw most because it would allow me to get a bit of card selection. It whiffed twice out of 8 or 9 times casting it tonight. Which was fine, I was looking for a threat not a removal spell at the time. Most of the time it hit a land - which was also fine because it allowed me to dig further into my deck for threats. Once it revealed a Rhino for lethal. And once the fact that I had enchantment in the GY made me large enough to swing for lethal over two turns.
I faced UWR Control/Tempo, Living End, Affinity and Jund. I got super lucky against Living End though.
On a side note... there have been two cards I've been thinking about all night. I think it's because i'm a crackpot - but they are Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Lingering Souls won most of my games tonight for me. Nissa while not the best gives 0/1 blockers to protect herself and gives a huge boost in power to Lingering Souls, Rhino (trades with Rhinos/Goyfs) and Goyfs. One of the biggest things in the mirror or against any deck running Goyfs - sometimes you just board stall. I absolutely love anything that makes my dudes bigger or allows them to get through (Like Vault of the Archangel or Sorin [And I think Arlin Kord is an amazing card]). Now the reason I like these two cards, especially with Oath - is that in a stall game Gideon usually wins you the game and Nissa doubles your Lingering Souls power in the air. Going late game Souls/Flashback Souls, next turn Nissa -2 swing for 8 FORCES people to either make bad chump blocks or forces them to waste their removal on spirits. I think I'm a crack addict - but I'm really thinking of going -2 Tasigur, -1 Courser for +2 Nissa +1 Gideon. Thoughts?
I think I'm going to test the following again
2x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
1x Shambling Vent
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
1x Twilight Mire
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instant (8)
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Path to Exile
1x Anguished Unmaking
Sorcery (10)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
Enchantment (4)
4x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (3)
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Golgari Charm
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Languish
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Stony Silence
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Thoughtseize