With the list as is, my matchups with Wolf Run, UW Blade, and most aggro seem to be favourable. One matchup where I'm having major issues is UB.
In testing over the last few days (only testing game 1), I've had the following results:
9-3 vs Wolf Run Green
3-7 vs UB Control
6-2 vs UW Blade (aggro build)
Last week in Thursday Standard went:
2-0 vs GW Humans
0-2 vs UB Control
2-1 vs Solar Flare
2-1 vs UW Control
Record: 3-1
FNM went like this:
2-1 vs MonoBlack Infect
2-0 vs Solar Flare
0-2 vs Wolf Run Green
2-0 vs UW Blade
Record: 3-1
And then Saturday Standard went:
2-0 vs MonoWhite Humnas
2-1 vs UB Control
1-1-1 vs Esper Control
2-0 vs UB Tezzeret
Record: 3-0-1
Any ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I think we just need to build the decks in such a way that we can still win without the Swords. We can't rely on them.
For example, in my Bant build, I can very easily pull off wins without the Swords, between Skinshifters and Thruns, and if I need them, Consecrated Sphinx and Wurmcoil Engine out of the sideboard. Not to mention that I can get out turn two Geists with the Birds, which will generally allow me to get at least two swings in with him before he died to a blocker or a DoJ/BSZ.
I have a Bant aggro-control list I've been developing as well, it started as UG and I added the white for Geists and O-Rings. I'm interested to try Skinshifter, however I have doubts about it mostly because of my boarding strats. I already board out Mayors for Spellskites against Red, and I would certainly be boarding out Skinshifter in that matchup as well. So between Mayor and Skinshifter, Mayor seems best against control when I'd actually leave it in postboard. Skinshifter's ability to dodge a Slagstorm could be relevant against ramp, but again I would much rather have Spellskites there as well for a host of reasons. So if I do swap out the Mayors, it doesn't make sense to swap them for a card that's equally bad in those matchups and not an improvement on the Mayor against control.
At least if you're running an aggro-control sort of list, the theory is that you want a MUST ANSWER ME card to drop early against control. Geist is perfect for that, because it's the classic combination of difficult to deal with and presenting a fast clock. Mayor fits that bill also, though to a lesser extent to be sure. It also has the upside of making them play awkwardly, casting spells into your countermagic on their own turn and leaving you free to resolve another threat if you like on your turn while they're tapped out. (Grand Abolisher, of course, does this more directly and may be one of the best reasons to drop green and support WW casting costs if I consider that at some point -- I would maindeck Abolisher right now if I were straight UW.)
Don't be mistaken about the pressure that Skinshifter applies on your opponent. You're swinging with a 4/4 Trample on turn 3, and once you Sword him up he's hitting the trigger almost every single time, which can be devastating with the right Sword.
My games very often go like this:
T1: Birds of Paradise
T2: Skinshifter with mana available to transform him on the opponent's turn if necessary to protect him
T3: Swing for 4 with Mana Leak mana open
And things just get uglier from there. I've had a LOT of games go that way. Don't doubt that Skinshifter is a card that has to be dealt with.
I'm not a fan of Fiend Hunter because it only exiles creatures and creature removal is much more common MD than enchantment removal. Theres always the nightmare situation where you've got 2 or 3 of their big threats exiled with fiend hunters and you're forced into a position where you really need to play a Day of Judgment or die the next turn, play the DoJ and the board wipes except for the creatures that were previously exiled by hunter.
I have to agree with all of this. O Ring grabs everything but land instead of just creatures, and it's harder to remove.
I can't honestly say I see the merit of running the Mayor. You've got neither Humans nor Wolves. If it's just for the extra Wolf tokens I really don't think it's worth it. Not only do you have to wait for him to flip, but there's no guarantee you'll actually get a Wolf token out of him even if/when he does flip.
On the other hand, Skinshifters have been working wonders for me. Absolutely love them, and they allow you to very consistently get through for the Sword triggers, between Trample and Flying, and the protections afforded by the Swords themselves.
I went 4-1 with this list yesterday, against RDW, Mill, Solar Flare, UW Control, and Kessig Wolf Run. My one loss was to the Kessig.
I'm happy with how this list worked out. Some things I still want to try:
1) Fitting two more Thruns into my list somewhere.
2) Fitting a couple of Ghost Quarter into the list (or something else to try to help me against Kessig).
3) Fit two (I think) Angelic Destiny into the list somewhere.
4) Maybe swap the Wurmcoil for a Batterskull? Or try to fit a Batterskull in there somewhere seperately.
In your current list you can bring back 8 of your 12 creatures through Sun Titan, so I don't know if Moorland Haunts would be a great choice. Why exile Skinshifter when you can cast him for the same cost? Maybe try out Midnight Haunting instead?
Inkmoth Nexus is always great to have but not sure how you would fit them in. Another thing on your lands, why do you have more SoM then M12/IND lands?
I've thought about dropping the Body and Mind, but so far it's worked out really well for me. I was, however, already planning to play around with using two Feast and Famine instead once I get my hands on a second Feast and Famine.
I think in the main I'm more likely to try to fit in two Images than the two Geist. I previously tested heavily with Geists main, and they very often proved less than useful. I think I'd mostly only want them for times when I need to be more aggressive and/or faster.
Moodland Haunt was just something I was semi considering, but you're right. Too many Sun Titan targets to wanna be getting exiling my creatures.
Inkmoth I really want to fit in, but I'm also not quite sure how to go about doing so. I'm iffy on putting in colourless land when I have three colours.
As for the SoM vs M12 lands, through my playing and testing I've found that it ends up being very bad for me when any of my first four or so land end up coming in tapped.
Also, I've gotten more than a few questioning looks when people see I'm running Feeling of Dread. So far that card has worked wonders. Especially since my meta is saturated with Images.
I've been running and tweaking a Bant build that I'm really happy with so far, though I'm surely willing to admit that it needs to be fine tuned. I like to call it HexBlade.
Here's the list. I'd really appreciate any thoughts, ideas, and constructive crtiticisms.
4x Seachrome Coast
2x Glacial Fortress
3x Razorverge Thicket
2x Sunpetal Grove
4x Hinterland Harbor
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Plains
2x Island
3x Forest
//--14 Creatures--//
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Skinshifter
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Sun Titan
4x Ponder
4x Mana Leak
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Beast Within
2x Day of Judgment
2x Angelic Destiny
//--2 Planeswalkers--//
2x Gideon Jura
//--4 Artifacts--//
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Sword of War and Peace
2x Spellskite
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Beast Within
2x Naturalize
3x Flashfreeze
2x Mirran Crusader
2x Day of Judgment
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Batterskull
With the list as is, my matchups with Wolf Run, UW Blade, and most aggro seem to be favourable. One matchup where I'm having major issues is UB.
In testing over the last few days (only testing game 1), I've had the following results:
9-3 vs Wolf Run Green
3-7 vs UB Control
6-2 vs UW Blade (aggro build)
Last week in Thursday Standard went:
2-0 vs GW Humans
0-2 vs UB Control
2-1 vs Solar Flare
2-1 vs UW Control
Record: 3-1
FNM went like this:
2-1 vs MonoBlack Infect
2-0 vs Solar Flare
0-2 vs Wolf Run Green
2-0 vs UW Blade
Record: 3-1
And then Saturday Standard went:
2-0 vs MonoWhite Humnas
2-1 vs UB Control
1-1-1 vs Esper Control
2-0 vs UB Tezzeret
Record: 3-0-1
Any ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
For example, in my Bant build, I can very easily pull off wins without the Swords, between Skinshifters and Thruns, and if I need them, Consecrated Sphinx and Wurmcoil Engine out of the sideboard. Not to mention that I can get out turn two Geists with the Birds, which will generally allow me to get at least two swings in with him before he died to a blocker or a DoJ/BSZ.
Don't be mistaken about the pressure that Skinshifter applies on your opponent. You're swinging with a 4/4 Trample on turn 3, and once you Sword him up he's hitting the trigger almost every single time, which can be devastating with the right Sword.
My games very often go like this:
T1: Birds of Paradise
T2: Skinshifter with mana available to transform him on the opponent's turn if necessary to protect him
T3: Swing for 4 with Mana Leak mana open
And things just get uglier from there. I've had a LOT of games go that way. Don't doubt that Skinshifter is a card that has to be dealt with.
Here's a list I threw together earlier, which needs refining:
4 x Darkslick Shores
4 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Inkmoth nexus
2 x Ghost Quarter
7 x Island
6 x Swamp
4 x Ludevic's Test Subject
2 x Spellskite
2 x Snapcaster Mage
2 x Wurmcoil Engine
1 x Consecrated Sphinx
//--1 Planeswalker--//
1 x Karn Liberated
4 x Mana Leak
4 x Dissipate
4 x Doom Blade
2 x Tribute to Hunger
2 x Black Sun's Zenith
3 x Tezzeret's Gambit
2 x Think Twice
2 x Tumble Magnet
I have to agree with all of this. O Ring grabs everything but land instead of just creatures, and it's harder to remove.
EDIT: Also, double white on the Fiend Hunter.
I can't honestly say I see the merit of running the Mayor. You've got neither Humans nor Wolves. If it's just for the extra Wolf tokens I really don't think it's worth it. Not only do you have to wait for him to flip, but there's no guarantee you'll actually get a Wolf token out of him even if/when he does flip.
On the other hand, Skinshifters have been working wonders for me. Absolutely love them, and they allow you to very consistently get through for the Sword triggers, between Trample and Flying, and the protections afforded by the Swords themselves.
4x Seachrome Coast
2x Glacial Fortress
3x Razorverge Thicket
2x Sunpetal Grove
4x Hinterland Harbor
2x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Plains
2x Island
3x Forest
//--16 Creatures--//
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Skinshifter
2x Phantasmal Image
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Sun Titan
4x Ponder
4x Mana Leak
3x Oblivion Ring
1x Dismember
2x Day of Judgment
//--2 Planeswalkers--//
2x Gideon Jura
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Sword of War and Peace
2x Spellskite
1x Dismember
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Naturalize
2x Flashfreeze
1x Dissipate
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Day of Judgment
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Wurmcoil Engine
I went 4-1 with this list yesterday, against RDW, Mill, Solar Flare, UW Control, and Kessig Wolf Run. My one loss was to the Kessig.
I'm happy with how this list worked out. Some things I still want to try:
1) Fitting two more Thruns into my list somewhere.
2) Fitting a couple of Ghost Quarter into the list (or something else to try to help me against Kessig).
3) Fit two (I think) Angelic Destiny into the list somewhere.
4) Maybe swap the Wurmcoil for a Batterskull? Or try to fit a Batterskull in there somewhere seperately.
I've thought about dropping the Body and Mind, but so far it's worked out really well for me. I was, however, already planning to play around with using two Feast and Famine instead once I get my hands on a second Feast and Famine.
I think in the main I'm more likely to try to fit in two Images than the two Geist. I previously tested heavily with Geists main, and they very often proved less than useful. I think I'd mostly only want them for times when I need to be more aggressive and/or faster.
Moodland Haunt was just something I was semi considering, but you're right. Too many Sun Titan targets to wanna be getting exiling my creatures.
Inkmoth I really want to fit in, but I'm also not quite sure how to go about doing so. I'm iffy on putting in colourless land when I have three colours.
As for the SoM vs M12 lands, through my playing and testing I've found that it ends up being very bad for me when any of my first four or so land end up coming in tapped.
Also, I've gotten more than a few questioning looks when people see I'm running Feeling of Dread. So far that card has worked wonders. Especially since my meta is saturated with Images.
Here's the list. I'd really appreciate any thoughts, ideas, and constructive crtiticisms.
4x Seachrome Coast
2x Glacial Fortress
4x Razorverge Thicket
2x Sunpetal Grove
4x Hinterland Harbor
3x Plains
2x Island
4x Forest
//--12 Creatures--//
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Skinshifter
2x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Sun Titan
4x Ponder
4x Mana Leak
1x Dissipate
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Dismember
2x Feeling of Dread
2x Day of Judgment
//--2 Planeswalkers--//
2x Gideon Jura
//--3 Artifacts--//
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of War and Peace
2x Spellskite
2x Timely Reinforcements
3x Naturalize
1x Flashfreeze
1x Dissipate
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Day of Judgment
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Jace, Memory Adept
1x Consecrated Sphinx
Ideas I've thought of but haven't really tried yet: