I really like Arcades. He doesn't really draw a ton of attention (or at least, he shouldn't) because people know I'm playing with Defenders.
You and I had very different experiences playing Arcades, my friend. I could never keep him on the table. Playgroup came pretty stacked with removal and wraths.
As for the primer, while I could definitely borrow a lot of it, I might just start from scratch. Be a fun little project, and interesting to compare what I wrote then (over 3 years ago, wow) with what I might write now.
Amusingly enough, I played around with Arcades, the Strategist too. Threw a deck together just for laughs, played like 5 games with it then moved on. It was basically this list with most of the creatures swapped out for Walls, with a few other minor changes.
As an aside, the primer committee has stated that the preference is for me to leave this thread here as a retired primer and make an entirely new thread for the new version of the deck, despite it being nearly identical (most of the same cards, same play style, etc) with just a different commander.
So, rather than the large update I was planning to do here, I suppose I'll be making a new thread, and I'm just going to make a couple of minor edits in this thread.
tl;dr: I'm back and a big update is coming soon(ish). Also, Knight of Autumn is awesome.
I've been gone for ages. I know. I've not updated the primer or posted here in a long time.
I was bored of my decks a bit so I tinkered with a lot of other building. Then I swapped Jenara out for Atraxa, Praetors' Voice and turned the deck into 4 colours. That was pretty powerful, but I got over it pretty quickly. There were too many things I wanted to try to put in the deck so I was never completely happy with the list. The deck got to a point where every deck felt the same, so I just sort of stopped playing it. My play sessions got much, much more infrequent, and whenever I did play I used other decks. Then I stopped playing almost entirely.
But now I've gotten back into it again. The drive to tinker and play is back. When it returned, one of the first things I did was strip down this deck and take a fresh look at it. I thought long and hard about it, but I made the decision to make Derevi, Empyrial Tactician the new commander. That's right. As much as I love Jenara, I made the decision, I've been playing it, and I've been loving it.
Don't fret. It's not some mean, anti-fun stax deck now. The concept and plan haven't changed. It's still very nearly the same deck. There have been a few card changes made to take advantage of Derevi's untap ability (like Bloom Tender), but otherwise it's the same idea. Other changes made to the list (which you'll see reflected in the primer in the near future) were things I would've done even with Jenara still at the helm. The list has been slimmed down and tightened up. Much of that was adapting to my playgroup becoming more powerful in general, but also largely just keeping up with the ever changing landscape of commander. In general, decks have gotten better, faster, leaner, etc.
Realistically speaking, Derevi was always very close to taking over. She doesn't have the raw beat stick ability that Jenara has, but the other benefits she offers have proven to be very effective. So much value, and so reliable to have her on the table all the time. These things make it easier to just kill with the rest of the deck, rather than ever needing to rely on the commander as a finisher. That said, stick your Sword of choice on her and she'll still do some heavy work.
So that's pretty much it. It's not ready yet, but an update is coming. A big one.
Yeah 100% agree. You don't need all the combos, but I'm keeping the list as more of a resource guide for people wanting to know what is available on the combo front.
I've found the Sword of Feast and Famine to be too literally hit or miss. Even making sure your lands provide the actual WUBRG is a issue that does crop up often.
That makes sense. It is nice to know about the various options. I've chosen to include only one of the easy infinite lines, just because it's nice to have a combo in the back pocket if/when needed. It used to be Bear Umbra, but I decided to swap for Druids' Repository, probably for the same reasons Repository is one of your preferred ones over Sword of Feast and Famine and such. Plus, I didn't like the non-bo with a Steely Resolve already on the table.
Your list looks pretty spot on for a more tuned version to me, they only card I would really put in to be more Spikey is Derevi, Empyrial Tactician. Also Reconnaissance is really good, helps out a lot with "evasion".
Thanks, I've been pretty happy with it so far. I have been considering Reconnaissance. I do like the card, and love how cheap it is. It's been a maybe since I first put the list together. Probably find its way in eventually.
On another note, I definitely acknowledge the power level of Cathars' Crusade and Valor in Akros in here. To be quite honest, the primary reason I excluded them was because of the logistical issues with tracking them. Beastmaster Ascension may be worse, but it doesn't give the same headache, y'know? Plus I've been trying to keep the average CMC of the deck quite low (currently 2.20, nothing over 4 CMC).
I've been tuning a very similar list but without the combo focus. Being combo focused tends to be frowned upon in my group and gets hated out, plus in my experience so far I've found that in many, many cases the combo would just be "win more", since one or two Najeela activations often wins the game anyway.
This is where my list is at currently. I'm really happy with it so far, though still tweaking it.
PS. I ran into an interesting scenario where Sakashima's Student and Yuriko, can create infinite Mana in the Combat Step with a Lost Vale and Cloud of Faeries on the Board.. 'xD
Are you sure? Unless I'm missing something, it just gives you infinite swapping between Yuriko and Sakashima's Student. Which I guess kills the table if you also have Vela the Night-Clad or similar on the table, but I don't see it netting any mana.
How do you guys feel about Bident of Thassa..? Seems like Drawing a ton of extra Cards would be nice.. But 4CMC IS pretty high, and our Commander is already a Card Draw Engine.. (It can also potentially be used to open up a path to swing in uninhibited.)
PS. (@plushpenguin, I don't think you updated your main post deck list w/ the -trition +stalker.)
I played with Bident for a little bit and was consistently underwhelmed. Just never wanted/needed to spend 4 mana on extra cards.
For recovering post boardwipe how about adding more man lands? Inkmoth or blinkmonth are both cheap to activate and have evasive.
I find running Inkmoth Nexus will pull opportunistic land destruction, because people will assume you're running some way to 10 infect them in one shot. I do like the idea of running Blinkmoth Nexus, though.
Also helpful for coming back from a wrath, I've been very happy with a couple of hasty enablers that were in the list I posted. Specifically, Gurmag Swiftwing and Nether Traitor.
I saw earlier mentions of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Bearer of Silence. I haven't seen the latter enough to have much of a judgement on it just yet, but it seems solid. As for Jace, while it's true that he's not super easily protected in this deck, I really like him. Brainstorm or bounce something, both help with the plan.
I've been tinkering with a very similar list. I came to a lot of the same conclusions as you about a number of the cards you're running.
If you're curious, here's the state of my list currently. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about any of the cards I've chosen.
Also, to Diemer84, if you take a look at the card options list in the main post you'll see that many of the cards you're considering are listed there as things I've either played in the deck in the past or have considered playing. I'd say go ahead and take a look at my reasoning there for a more experienced take on it.
Also also, Mana Drain is definitely already in the list. Been there since pretty much when I first built the deck.
Also also also, just to note, I currently have the deck converted into an Atraxa, Praetor's Voice deck, but have chosen to leave the primer as Jenara, partly because I just don't have a lot of time these days to keep on it. I also haven't really played Commander in about two months, though I'm hoping to change that in the near future.
No, I don't play any clones currently, but I do have a Phantasmal Image pulled out and I intend to work it into the list. I realize it's been a shortcoming, but there are other cool things to try and I don't necessarily want to be doing everything exactly like the cool kids do.
It's good to know what the cool kids are doing and those things seem to always work better than my own ideas, but I still like to do some things differently. I don't think I would play at all if all I did was find and copy lists, you know? How dull would that be?
Doing your own thing is all fine and good, but not playing clones is just crazy talk.
[quote from="ZenN »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/606002-jenara-asura-of-war-value-town?comment=319"]Mana for flickering is definitely an idea; I had overlooked it. Thanks for pointing that out.
Palinchron can be enabled in more ways since it can bounce itself, but I'm not sure I want to tune for either of them. I don't currently run any mana doublers or anything else that would work with Palinchron that wouldn't work with the little guy. I had several copies of Peregrine Drake and I thought it might be worth a test. The money isn't really much of an obstacle, it's true.
Right now, I'm having a great deal of fun with the newly added Survival of the Fittest, et. al., combo and Gilded Drake shenanigans. That little guy can just wreak havoc with the right support!
No Phantasmal Image? It plus Palinchron is infinite mana, thanks to the bounce ability. 2 to cast Image, 4 to bounce, untap 7 lands. Nets 1 mana each time. If you've got lands that make multiple mana (Ancient Tomb, Gaea's Cradle, etc) it can even work with other clones, like Phyrexian Metamorph and Clever Impersonator, though obviously much harder to pull off.
As for the primer, while I could definitely borrow a lot of it, I might just start from scratch. Be a fun little project, and interesting to compare what I wrote then (over 3 years ago, wow) with what I might write now.
As an aside, the primer committee has stated that the preference is for me to leave this thread here as a retired primer and make an entirely new thread for the new version of the deck, despite it being nearly identical (most of the same cards, same play style, etc) with just a different commander.
So, rather than the large update I was planning to do here, I suppose I'll be making a new thread, and I'm just going to make a couple of minor edits in this thread.
tl;dr: I'm back and a big update is coming soon(ish). Also, Knight of Autumn is awesome.
I've been gone for ages. I know. I've not updated the primer or posted here in a long time.
I was bored of my decks a bit so I tinkered with a lot of other building. Then I swapped Jenara out for Atraxa, Praetors' Voice and turned the deck into 4 colours. That was pretty powerful, but I got over it pretty quickly. There were too many things I wanted to try to put in the deck so I was never completely happy with the list. The deck got to a point where every deck felt the same, so I just sort of stopped playing it. My play sessions got much, much more infrequent, and whenever I did play I used other decks. Then I stopped playing almost entirely.
But now I've gotten back into it again. The drive to tinker and play is back. When it returned, one of the first things I did was strip down this deck and take a fresh look at it. I thought long and hard about it, but I made the decision to make Derevi, Empyrial Tactician the new commander. That's right. As much as I love Jenara, I made the decision, I've been playing it, and I've been loving it.
Don't fret. It's not some mean, anti-fun stax deck now. The concept and plan haven't changed. It's still very nearly the same deck. There have been a few card changes made to take advantage of Derevi's untap ability (like Bloom Tender), but otherwise it's the same idea. Other changes made to the list (which you'll see reflected in the primer in the near future) were things I would've done even with Jenara still at the helm. The list has been slimmed down and tightened up. Much of that was adapting to my playgroup becoming more powerful in general, but also largely just keeping up with the ever changing landscape of commander. In general, decks have gotten better, faster, leaner, etc.
Realistically speaking, Derevi was always very close to taking over. She doesn't have the raw beat stick ability that Jenara has, but the other benefits she offers have proven to be very effective. So much value, and so reliable to have her on the table all the time. These things make it easier to just kill with the rest of the deck, rather than ever needing to rely on the commander as a finisher. That said, stick your Sword of choice on her and she'll still do some heavy work.
So that's pretty much it. It's not ready yet, but an update is coming. A big one.
1U
Faerie Rogue
1/2 with flying, when it attacks surveil 1.
Solid enabler for Yuriko and helps with both top deck manipulation and filling the yard for Delve cards.
Thanks, I've been pretty happy with it so far. I have been considering Reconnaissance. I do like the card, and love how cheap it is. It's been a maybe since I first put the list together. Probably find its way in eventually.
On another note, I definitely acknowledge the power level of Cathars' Crusade and Valor in Akros in here. To be quite honest, the primary reason I excluded them was because of the logistical issues with tracking them. Beastmaster Ascension may be worse, but it doesn't give the same headache, y'know? Plus I've been trying to keep the average CMC of the deck quite low (currently 2.20, nothing over 4 CMC).
This is where my list is at currently. I'm really happy with it so far, though still tweaking it.
1 Najeela, the Blade-Blossom
Lands (34)
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Badlands
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
1 Tropical Island
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Mardu Woe-Reaper
1 Blood-Chin Rager
1 Bramblewood Paragon
1 Decorated Champion
1 Den Protector
1 Chief of the Edge
1 Chief of the Scale
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Honored Crop-Captain
1 Metallic Mimic
1 Mindblade Render
1 Radha, Heir to Keld
1 Rushblade Commander
1 Adaptive Automaton
1 Champion of Lambholt
1 Combat Celebrant
1 Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist
1 Grand Warlord Radha
1 Madrush Cyclops
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Thrasher Brute
Artifacts (8)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
1 Chromatic Lantern
Enchantments (9)
1 Impact Tremors
1 Steely Resolve
1 Sylvan Library
1 Aura Shards
1 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Druids' Repository
1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
1 Shared Animosity
1 Raiders' Spoils
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Altar's Reap
1 Boros Charm
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Delay
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Negate
1 Mana Drain
1 Unified Will
1 Wear // Tear
1 Beast Within
1 Crackling Doom
1 Teferi's Protection
Sorceries (7)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Night's Whisper
1 Painful Truths
1 Toxic Deluge
Also helpful for coming back from a wrath, I've been very happy with a couple of hasty enablers that were in the list I posted. Specifically, Gurmag Swiftwing and Nether Traitor.
I saw earlier mentions of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Bearer of Silence. I haven't seen the latter enough to have much of a judgement on it just yet, but it seems solid. As for Jace, while it's true that he's not super easily protected in this deck, I really like him. Brainstorm or bounce something, both help with the plan.
If you're curious, here's the state of my list currently. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about any of the cards I've chosen.
1 Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
Lands
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Halimar Depths
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
1 High Market
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
10 Island
7 Swamp
Creatures
1 Hypnotic Siren
1 Mausoleum Wanderer
1 Siren Stormtamer
1 Augury Owl
1 Baleful Strix
1 Bearer of Silence
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Gurmag Swiftwing
1 Mindshrieker
1 Nether Traitor
1 Sage Owl
1 Spire Owl
1 Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
1 Thalakos Seer
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Sakashima's Student
1 Higure, the Still Wind
1 Throat Slitter
1 Vela the Night-Clad
1 Silent-Blade Oni
1 Elder Deep-Fiend
1 Vexing Scuttler
1 Mana Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Dimir Signet
1 Dowsing Dagger
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Scroll Rack
1 Talisman of Dominance
Enchantments
1 Bitterblossom
1 Cover of Darkness
1 Unnatural Selection
1 Arcane Adaptation
1 As Foretold
Planeswalkers
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instants
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Mana Drain
1 Dismember
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Commit // Memory
1 Cryptic Command
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Snuff Out
1 Force of Will
1 Dig Through Time
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Temporal Trespass
Also, to Diemer84, if you take a look at the card options list in the main post you'll see that many of the cards you're considering are listed there as things I've either played in the deck in the past or have considered playing. I'd say go ahead and take a look at my reasoning there for a more experienced take on it.
Also also, Mana Drain is definitely already in the list. Been there since pretty much when I first built the deck.
Also also also, just to note, I currently have the deck converted into an Atraxa, Praetor's Voice deck, but have chosen to leave the primer as Jenara, partly because I just don't have a lot of time these days to keep on it. I also haven't really played Commander in about two months, though I'm hoping to change that in the near future.
Off the top of my head I only know of the Grand Architect + Pili-Pala one mentioned above, and the 5 colour one with Body Double, Viscera Seer, Reveillark, and Mogg Fanatic.
I saw some people above mention an Abzan colours combo? Wuzzat?