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  • posted a message on Help! Mono Red too good
    4 people is the average draft size.

    The problem with the logic of "if red is too good, then a lot of people should try to draft red , which will balance out red".

    Is a lot of people are playing the cube to build fun and viable decks.
    Red requires the least thought of any archetype and makes the drafting process way more streamlined and simple.

    I don't want something that takes away from interaction and creativeness to be the most powerful deck.

    "Honestly, the natural ecosystem of cube skews so far toward midrange and control that if you start running any significant number of aggro-hosers, you'll leave red aggro as a quasi-viable aggro deck and totally hose any other aggro deck out of existence."

    I have given agro a LOT of support in this cube, which might be part of the problem.

    I guess am not looking to add a ton of hosers, but trying to understand how best to counter a hyper agro strategy given the set of cards in most cube. If I need to add a few cards to support this strategy than so be it.

    Obviously I want a heavy red to be still viable, but I do not want it to be a top top tier deck, since it is one of the least interactive and simple decks to build.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Help! Mono Red too good
    Red can be a more intuitive deck to draft so new players can have success with it. The best way to move players into other colors is to show them how to draft other decks, by building other decks.

    There are cards that red has a hard time dealing with, maybe you don't run some of them? If we see your list we can help make suggestions.

    Thanks for the reply. Im thinking a lot of it has to do with the skill level of the group and inexperience with the cube in general (myself included)

    It's possible I don't run the cards that red has trouble with though.
    Could you list some the prime hosers of red?
    Maybe like a top 5/10 list?

    Im waiting until I get all the cards I want (still waiting on the mail) before I post the list.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Help! Mono Red too good
    So.. I'm about 90% finished building my cube and have been play testing with some of my friends.

    Some background:

    1. I have tried to emulate most of the cards on wtwlf123's cube.

    However, I am avoid most cards that cost 25$+, as well as "the power 9" and cards that I just find unfun.

    Key cards not included: Mind twist, power 9, anything over 35$, the Swords, Umezawas jitte, Beta Dual lands, Sol ring, Balance, Land Tax.

    2. Because the Red section is generally pretty cheap, I've been able to mimic his red section card for card. But the Blue section, many of the broken spells cost too much to be included.

    3. The players in my play group are not very experienced in magic, but they are decent.


    Forcing red agro has been almost a guaranteed win condition if there's only one person doing it.

    So what I'm debating on is how I can either make agro weaker or control stronger. I am not willing to proxy or spend 30$+ on a card (yet).
    What is generally the best way to go about making agro strategies relativly weaker while maintaining the most fun?


    1. Add in cards that functionally hose very agro strategies. (Very open to suggestions on how to do this.). Maybe increase the number of sweepers and life gain effects?

    2. Increase the power level of the cube. (It seems that most of the power cards excluded are ones that benefit control and mid range over agro).

    3. Reduce the number of 1/2 drops or burn spells in red and replace it with more utility cards/sweepers/archtype stuff.

    4. Decrease the power level of the 1/2 drops and burn spells (replace lightning bolt with shock etc etc)


    If you guys knew that hyper agro was the deck to beat in the cube and you were determined to go control or mid-range.
    What kind of deck would you build to do so?
    What properties would that deck have?
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [720][Powered] wtwlf123's Cube
    With all the new graveyard support:

    Thoughts on Forbidden Alchemy?
    Posted in: Cube Lists
  • posted a message on [720][Powered] wtwlf123's Cube
    Thanks for posting the changes! Am beyond obsessed with designing my cube right now and reading your page has given me so many great ideas.
    Appreciate the time/effort! Stoked to read the changes you made.
    Great analysis too!

    Some questions:

    I am trying to support artifact archetype in my 360 unpowered cube (Theres maybe 50 cards from your 360 that don't get in due to cost or power level or entertainment value, have some space)

    Am trying to minimize the number of extremely powerful artifacts (so I don't have to spend as many slots on artifact hate), but still want to support
    the tezzeret brothers and a couple nifty artifact tricks.

    Imagine you were building an ideal artifact.dec, what would be the general theme of the deck?
    Is it just blue control + artifact dominance?
    Are the artifacts that might be less powerful in general that work great in this idealized deck?
    Are there artifacts that are very powerful in general but are less useful in the artifact combo decs?

    Thoughts on birthing pod? You seem to be supporting both artifact.dec AND blink effects, what's the draw back on this card that makes it not see cube play?
    Posted in: Cube Lists
  • posted a message on Interesting Limited Combos: Avacyn Restored Edition
    Nightshade peddler and the 1 damage 3 mana enchantment.

    Turn 3 , tap creature - destroy target creature.

    Pretty unbeatable If ur deck is light on bounce and removal
    Posted in: Limited Archives
  • posted a message on Cube design philosophy (Archtype support)
    sweet, ty.
    Im going to focus on "interesting" cards first, from the 1-720 range, then cut/add as necessary to support archtypes once ive play tested.

    Example of Powerful Cards that seem boring to me

    Mind twist (super powerful, but discard X cards = boring and useful for too many decks)
    Jace, memory adept (lacks synergy with anything but mill decks, which there arent enough versatile cards to support a mill theme)
    Sword of **** (could be wrong on this, but dont see much creativity in them other than requiring creatures and/or stoneforge mystic)
    Land tax

    Themes off the top of my that Id like to support:
    Heavy graveyard interaction (flashback spells, reanimator, dredge, cards that increase in power as your graveyard fills)
    Artifact based decks (tinker, tezzeret, metalcraft?)
    Flicker, ETB effect decks (birthing pod, restoration angel, flickerwisp)
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on Cube design philosophy (Archtype support)
    Hi! I'm a beginner cube designer ,

    I'm looking to design a 360 card cube that is powerful (not power 9, but uses mostly top tier cards), but it's goal is to maximize VARIETY and CREATIVENESS in creating viable competitive decks.

    I want to be able to design a cube where a well executed archetype (understanding synergies between cards), with inferior cards, can beat decks that are a semi-random mish mash of broken cards.

    I read wtwlf123's theory on including cards that maximize versatility and understand the logic behind it. But is it possible to design a cube that supports inferior cards, with archtype specific applications?

    So say, 330 of your 360 cards are versatile. But 30 of them are archtype specific?

    Basically, I want to create a drafting environment that rewards understanding and identifying synergy as much as possible and giving people as many viable options as possible to create interesting decks.

    Im wondering if you guys were to design a cube prioritizing strategic options, are there certain very powerful cards that you would cut in order to make "weaker, but interesting" cards viable ?
    Are there specific cards that fall short of the top 360 that you would include because it opens strategic options?

    Am thinking it might be necessary to scale the power of the cube down a bit for this versatility to be effective?

    I understand my question is very general, but any thoughts are apreciated, thanks.
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on [AVR] Draft Archetypes and Format Discussion
    is black/green triumph enchantments a deck?
    Posted in: Limited Archives
  • posted a message on I'm sorry but I will not spend 30 tix for a prerelease that's three weeks late.
    Wizards of the coast pushes their boundaries of price exploitation of their product to the limit.

    Its their business model, its gross, borderline unethical, but seems to work for them financially.
    It also allows them to design some pretty sweet cards every year and create a pretty phenomenal product.

    It's obviously not THAT out of whack, because of all the people willing to do it.

    thankfully I got lucky and went 4-0 twice, 3-1 once and quit 0-2 once. Got some of my money back, but went into it knowing I was willing to pay for the experience. (IE feed my magic addiction).
    Posted in: Limited Archives
  • posted a message on Assessment of common and uncommon werewolves
    Waif is a high variance card, but in an agro deck its definitly good.

    Scorned villager is awsome.

    Awsome (Happy to pick 3rd or 4th)

    1. Gastaf sheppard
    2. Scorned Villager
    3. Ulvenward Mystics

    Good (happily play in most decks)

    4. Recklass Waif (deck dependent. agro beatdown required)
    5. Villagers of estwald
    6. Hanweir watchkeep (deck dependent, awsome in blue/red or any control red)
    7. Grizzled outcasts

    Meh (Play these 80% of the time and not thrilled)

    8. Hinterland hermit
    9. Village ironsmith

    Id prefer not to play these (Similar to meh, but im more upset when they make my deck)
    10. Afflicted deserter
    11. Tormented pariah

    Sucks very badly (I just wont play unless I have to or have a very specialized deck)

    12. Lambholdt elder
    Posted in: Limited Archives
  • posted a message on Pre-Release: B/G(w) "Frustrated by lack of Bombs"
    Curious, Why did you play ray of revalation main deck and not requiem angel?
    Posted in: Limited Archives
  • posted a message on Volley vs. Stalker
    In limited, to make the stalker really insane, it NEEDS to fit in a deck that has uses for the equipment/enchantments outside the stalker.

    If you manage to get 2x Invisible stalkers, they become much crazier. Since you can really build your deck around it. As a highly sought after uncommon, that is an extremly difficult task.

    Brimstone Volley is just extremly versatile , splashable and awsome.
    Posted in: Limited Archives
  • posted a message on Best limited pull in DKA?
    For me my pool was pretty weak on the rare front, but managed to get a deck that worked synergistcally.

    B/W human/spirits, with a lot of efficient creatures and great removal was the theme.

    Geist honored monk and Geralf's Messanger were my rares.

    2x tragic slips
    1x dead weight
    1x victim of night
    1x slayer of the wicked
    1x rebuke
    1x Skirsdag Flayer

    Went 3-1, losing the 1 match 2-1 to pretty heavy mana screw. Although he did have double geist flame, which rapes my deck pretty hard.

    Besides Geist Honored monk, Skirsdag Flayer was definitely the star of my deck.

    When your targets for sacrifice are Elgaud Inquistor, Loyal Cathar, Eldar Cathar , gather the townsfolk and doomed traveler.. The downside seemed pretty negligible and the insane upside.

    My deck was able to stabilize on the ground with double markov patrician and elguad inquistor for life gain, some cheap tokens to stall, removed their big threats with insane removal, and then beat down with spirits in the air.

    Was very effective.

    Falkenrath torturer worked very well in my deck too. When you are getting your opponents near lethal , or if you have a lot of human fodder, his sac -> flying +1/+1 ability is very relevant.

    Gerals messenger was ok, but not spectacular in my deck. Slighty damaged the tempo of my deck (lot of variance for tripple black) definitely not picking him over solid removal during drafts.

    Also biggest thing I realized from 2x prerelease .

    Sorcery speed Morbid -> tricky to pull off
    Instant speed morbid -> easy to pull off

    that +1/+1 , +3/+3 morbid counter thing for green was insanely efficient.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Moogie's DKA limited set review (Complete)
    Random thought on DKA limited:

    The number of UNCOMMON lords and deck dependent rares are going to inspire a lot more archetype forcing than in INN/INN/INN.

    If the assumption holds true that more people will be forcing archetypes,
    What sort of effect should that have on your drafting strategy?
    Posted in: Limited Archives
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