Thoughts on siding 1 Hallowed Foountain and 3 Rest for the Weary versus Burn? I feel like Burn is one of this deck's worst and most popular match-ups and common sideboards don't do much to address it (Claw/Droplet has does very little in my experience). You have 8 fetches for the Fountain and Burn doesn't have Ghost Quarter or Blood Moon, so you shouldn't have to worry about not having your white source. It should also be easy to play it around Command and Charm and your opponent won't side Skucracks (at least for g2). 4 cards is a lot for one match up, but I'm thinking it may be worth it here.
@redtwister: how many lands were you running? The manabase for bg should be no more or less susceptible to flooding than the regular mono black manabase. I would likely chalk your issues up to variance unless there was a significant change you made in the number of lands. I'm also not sold on illness in the ranks. Assemble is one of the strongest cards against us, but illness is much more narrow than golgari charm, which is still an acceptable answer. I also don't see a reason to run putrefy anywhere in the 75. 2 cmc is a bigger upside than anything putrefy has to offer. IMO the only reason you want the green splash is abrupt decay. Charm and mistcutter are the only other green cards I've found myself running.
Stormbreath Dragon is definitely a Standard staple. But it's also definitely not a pick-up @ $35.
The only cards that might (huge mights) be pick-ups are Master of Waves and Underworld Cerberus. It looks like they're both clocking in around $5-$7. They have enough potential to be standard all-stars, but could easily flop. Any rare under $1 that isn't bulk has some potential as well. Maybe Prognostic Shpinx? Huey seemed to be a fan of it in his U/W control deck. It seems too much of a role-player to spike $$$ wise though.
I dont think im going the mutavault route. He's the only one playing the deck out of 32 people. Although I may cut a negate and fog for 2 mutavaults in the board.
Ali aintrazi is in my play group and he recommended using mutavault. I haven't had success with it, but its usually worth listening to Ali. He may be right, but I haven't gotten it to work.
Redtwister: that's similar to what I'm going to run, but I'm probably going to try to fit a 4th paladin and change the lands a little. Torn on RIP. It's a nonbo with rancor, but it does shut down several popular decks. I also feel the match ups vs those decks aren't that bad and don't necessarily warrant RIP.
Flex: pretty sure you're right. I want some interaction, but I think our cards are good enough now that we don't need it.
All: Scout can still be a beating. There have been many games I won simply by going Scout->armor, rancor or Scout-> spectral flight. 4 may not be the right number, but I don't think 2 is either.
A little? Hehe, he's a good kid, though, I watched him beat 3 or 4 of my close friends in Swiss and I was rooting for him the entire time, haha. And yeah, he told me how we didn't have change to snag a final Scout and that he wanted to drop a land; I flooded a lot during the Win-a-Boxes myself.
Most definitely. I usually like a lower land count (usually use 21), but was scared with all the 3-drops:
3x Fiendslayer Paladin (per original list)
4x Geist of St Traft
2x Gift of Orzhova
1x Ajani
Also, I think Alex may have been accidentally brilliant cutting the 4th Scout. Running too many 1/1s is a liability. Cutting the Scout trims this a bit, lets you max one of your power cards (Fiendslayer), and lets you keep 4 Pilgrim to cast Pally and Geist.
I'm still a little worried to cut a land with so many 3-drops, but flood was one of my biggest problems in previous 22 land builds.
New list I'm considering:
4x fiendslayer paladin
4x geist of st traft
4x avacyn's pilgrim
3x gladecover scout
4x invisible stalker
4x ethereal armor
1x gift of orzhova
4x unflinching courage
4x rancor
4x spectral flight
1x ajani
2x simic charm
2x glacial fortress
2x hinterland harbor
4x hallowed fountain
4x temple garden
4x sunpetal grove
4x breeding pool
1x overgrown tomb
SB
4x voice of resurgence
2x mending touch
1x ray of revelation
2x fog
2x nearhearth pilgrim
3x negate
1x ajani
yeah, this weekend's Open happened right in my backyard and I got to speak at length with the guy who got 12th, he had some interesting thoughts (though he seemed a bit nervous to be getting questioned about his card choices, heh).
I'm warming up to the idea of Ajani in the main. Still not sure on sideboarding Voice of Resurgence but it is certainly something I will consider going forward. I agreed with all of his other conclusions.
BTW, I played Bant (not 4-color) this weekend (did not play in the main event, win-a-boxes are better EV for me). The only one I lost was the one where I had to play Brad Nelson lol
Well, I made all his card choices ;p. Only change was a 4th Paladin over 4th Scout because he didn't have change on hand to get a Scout. Alex is also a little nervous in general.
Voice is in the board because it's generally low impact. Changing the line-up means people will play wrong against you too (ex - Pillar is traditionally powerful against the deck. Now it only kills Pilgrim. You have the perogative to side in/out Voices games 2 & 3 depending on how you think your opponent values Pillar. If they leave it in and you still don't have Voice, their Pillars are going to be very, very bad.). I've been a big proponent of it in the past, but with Scout and Paladin you have enough powerful cards to go straight Hexproof and make the opponent's removal worse. It also "replaces" Strangleroot in the board. I'd rather not try to go 1WW and GG in the same deck and can adjust my manabase accordingly. Also, most edict effects come in post-board where you can bring in the Voices.
May be right to main them depending on the meta, but based on the top 8 I think they still belong in the side.
Looks like someone took Fett2's list to the SCGO and got 12th. Gratz
Yea, I know Alex and he asked me for my list. He lost his win-and-in to Sacher on the back of Profit//Loss.
He said the only real change he'd make is to maybe drop a land, but it sounded like the deck worked great for him all day. I need to discuss his experience with it more to see if he had any other relevant experiences as I haven't gotten to play the deck in real life yet (just online). I should get a fair number of iterations in this weekend though (FNM + Super IQ).
The other two top 16 Hexproof lists look pretty awful. 4 Curiosity, 3 Spectral Flight, 3 Sunpetal Grove in the 10th place list is obviously wrong. The G/W lands are your best ones and should be maxed nearly always. Spectral Flight was one of the best cards in the deck before, and is even more important with Gladecover Scout. Curiosity is not at all where I want to be with the deck. It's only good with Invisible Stalker and is nigh useless without Stalker or a trample/flying enchantment (which he cut one of). The 11th place list is a little better, but Witchstalker and Selesnya Charm seem sub-optimal. I want to include some interaction in the main (my list has none), but Ajani has been over-performing in those slots. His effect is very powerful and as a one-of, your opponent can rarely afford to play around him.
This is the list I'm running right now. Voice will move to main depending on the meta. Gift and Ajani make Scout and Geist much better. Fiendslayer is pretty legit.
It is people that are complaining that will make Wizards never want to do stuff like this set which will make the game poorer for it. Could they have handled the distribution better AT the convention? Yes. I am sure 1 per person would have been the way to go. But to complain that they didn't print millions of copies and to sell them around the world when its entire purpose is to be an exclusive set is ridiculous.
QFT. I don't understand why everyone is feeling so entitled over this. These promos were obviously meant to be scarce and special, and they succeeded. They wouldn't be special at all and would be significantly less desirable if anyone with $60 could get them. They could have just never made them and then they'd be even harder (impossible) to acquire and no one would be complaining. Even if I never own any, I think it's awesome they exist.
For the last few sets, I've put together lists of "Standard Staples"- cards that will (likely) see play sometime before they rotate out. It's definitely started to impact my ability to assemble and play the top decks and improved my Magic experience and performance.
Here's my initial list of M14 Standard Staples (and the quantity I want):
Ajani, Caller of the Pride - 3 - NO - may see fringe play in 1 or 2 decks, but isn't anything you need
Archangel of Thune - 4 - YES - card is legit
Banisher Priest - 4 - YES
Brave the Elements - 4 - YES
Chandra, Pyromaster - 4 - NO - I could be wrong on this one, but I'd rather save my money
Clone - 4 - YES
Devout Invocation - 4 - NO
Domestication - 4 - ??? - This one is really tough. I think they're cheap, so it doesn't hurt getting them.
Doom Blade - 4 - YES - Obviously
Elite Arcanist - 4 - NO - 1/1 for 4 cmc and no immediate impact is too frail no matter how powerful the effect.
Enlarge - 4 - NO
Fiendslayer Paladin - 4 - YES
Flames of the Firebrand - 4 - YES
Garruk, Caller of Beasts - 3 - YES
Glimpse the Future - 4 - ??? - Pretty sure it's a no, but it's borderline.
Grim Return - 4 - NO
Imposing Sovereign - 4 - YES
Jace, Memory Adept - 3 - YES
Kalonian Hydra - 4 - YES
Kalonian Tusker - 4 - YES
Lifebane Zombie - 4 - YES
Mindsparker - 4 - YES
Mutavault - 4 - YES
Ogre Battledriver - 4 - YES
Ratchet Bomb - 4 - YES
Sanguine Bond - 4 - NO
Spell Blast - 4 - NO - Syncopate is already infinitely better
Wall of Frost - 4 - NO - Maybe it'll see fringe play? I'm ok missing out on this one.
Warden of Evos Isle - 4 - ??? - Maybe???
Witchstalker - 4 - Not at $6 - mostly just a 3/3 for 3.
Xathrid Necromancer - 4 - YES
Young Pyromancer - 4 - YES
As you can see, my initial list is quite extensive. I didn't expand it to include commons because I draft a bit and buy a box each set, which should get me playsets of all commons.
Any additions? Any cards I'm silly to include?
Answers to ones you mentioned above. Additions below.
The only cards that might (huge mights) be pick-ups are Master of Waves and Underworld Cerberus. It looks like they're both clocking in around $5-$7. They have enough potential to be standard all-stars, but could easily flop. Any rare under $1 that isn't bulk has some potential as well. Maybe Prognostic Shpinx? Huey seemed to be a fan of it in his U/W control deck. It seems too much of a role-player to spike $$$ wise though.
Unless people play Boon Satyr...
Ali aintrazi is in my play group and he recommended using mutavault. I haven't had success with it, but its usually worth listening to Ali. He may be right, but I haven't gotten it to work.
Flex: pretty sure you're right. I want some interaction, but I think our cards are good enough now that we don't need it.
All: Scout can still be a beating. There have been many games I won simply by going Scout->armor, rancor or Scout-> spectral flight. 4 may not be the right number, but I don't think 2 is either.
Most definitely. I usually like a lower land count (usually use 21), but was scared with all the 3-drops:
3x Fiendslayer Paladin (per original list)
4x Geist of St Traft
2x Gift of Orzhova
1x Ajani
Also, I think Alex may have been accidentally brilliant cutting the 4th Scout. Running too many 1/1s is a liability. Cutting the Scout trims this a bit, lets you max one of your power cards (Fiendslayer), and lets you keep 4 Pilgrim to cast Pally and Geist.
I'm still a little worried to cut a land with so many 3-drops, but flood was one of my biggest problems in previous 22 land builds.
New list I'm considering:
4x fiendslayer paladin
4x geist of st traft
4x avacyn's pilgrim
3x gladecover scout
4x invisible stalker
4x ethereal armor
1x gift of orzhova
4x unflinching courage
4x rancor
4x spectral flight
1x ajani
2x simic charm
2x glacial fortress
2x hinterland harbor
4x hallowed fountain
4x temple garden
4x sunpetal grove
4x breeding pool
1x overgrown tomb
SB
4x voice of resurgence
2x mending touch
1x ray of revelation
2x fog
2x nearhearth pilgrim
3x negate
1x ajani
Mull first hand, keep second. If he shoots Pilgrim and you miss a land drop you auto lose. Second hand is fairly safe.
S2:
Steal, swing.
Well, I made all his card choices ;p. Only change was a 4th Paladin over 4th Scout because he didn't have change on hand to get a Scout. Alex is also a little nervous in general.
Voice is in the board because it's generally low impact. Changing the line-up means people will play wrong against you too (ex - Pillar is traditionally powerful against the deck. Now it only kills Pilgrim. You have the perogative to side in/out Voices games 2 & 3 depending on how you think your opponent values Pillar. If they leave it in and you still don't have Voice, their Pillars are going to be very, very bad.). I've been a big proponent of it in the past, but with Scout and Paladin you have enough powerful cards to go straight Hexproof and make the opponent's removal worse. It also "replaces" Strangleroot in the board. I'd rather not try to go 1WW and GG in the same deck and can adjust my manabase accordingly. Also, most edict effects come in post-board where you can bring in the Voices.
May be right to main them depending on the meta, but based on the top 8 I think they still belong in the side.
Yea, I know Alex and he asked me for my list. He lost his win-and-in to Sacher on the back of Profit//Loss.
He said the only real change he'd make is to maybe drop a land, but it sounded like the deck worked great for him all day. I need to discuss his experience with it more to see if he had any other relevant experiences as I haven't gotten to play the deck in real life yet (just online). I should get a fair number of iterations in this weekend though (FNM + Super IQ).
The other two top 16 Hexproof lists look pretty awful. 4 Curiosity, 3 Spectral Flight, 3 Sunpetal Grove in the 10th place list is obviously wrong. The G/W lands are your best ones and should be maxed nearly always. Spectral Flight was one of the best cards in the deck before, and is even more important with Gladecover Scout. Curiosity is not at all where I want to be with the deck. It's only good with Invisible Stalker and is nigh useless without Stalker or a trample/flying enchantment (which he cut one of). The 11th place list is a little better, but Witchstalker and Selesnya Charm seem sub-optimal. I want to include some interaction in the main (my list has none), but Ajani has been over-performing in those slots. His effect is very powerful and as a one-of, your opponent can rarely afford to play around him.
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Invisible Stalker
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
Spells:19
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Rancor
4 Spectral Flight
2 Gift of Orzhova
4 Unflinching Courage
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
4 Breeding Pool
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Hinterland Harbor
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Fog
2 Mending Touch
2 Nearheath Pilgrim
3 Negate
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Ray of Revelation
QFT. I don't understand why everyone is feeling so entitled over this. These promos were obviously meant to be scarce and special, and they succeeded. They wouldn't be special at all and would be significantly less desirable if anyone with $60 could get them. They could have just never made them and then they'd be even harder (impossible) to acquire and no one would be complaining. Even if I never own any, I think it's awesome they exist.
Answers to ones you mentioned above. Additions below.
Add:
4x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tidebender Mage
4x Burning Earth
4x Celestial Flare
4x Chandra's Phoenix
3x Planar Cleansing
Maybe Quicken
Maybe Shadowborn Demon
Maybe Slivers
Maybe Trading Post
Duress, Elvish Mystic, Elixir of Immortality, Encroaching Wastes, Essence Scatter, Fog, Giant Growth, Gladecover Scout, maybe Advocate of the Beast, Negate, Shadowborn Apostle, Shock, Shrivel, Wring Flesh.
Trimming to actual staples:
Scavenging Ooze
Mutavault
Duress
Doom Blade
Ratchet Bomb
Archangel of Thune
Celestial Flare