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  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    I think it's likely one is town because I think Vaimes is town. Let's see how he handles deadline but he's probably just town here.

    Could easily be distancing but I'd expect a bit more teeth to it in that world and not just swiping.

    Anyway Osie I'm discounting the emotional response you drew from tom as I can't solve him that way. The one from Highroller is weird because you were making a truly bizarre read that didn't make much sense and my town read on him was unaffected by it. And I'm not sure what other emotional response you're referring to. Now what has been significant is your tone through all of that read super townily to Chris and he flipped the town momentum on it's head. So you are correct your play has had a large impact, I just think it's from second order knock ons, not the gambit itself.

    But like I'm 30% less interested in condemning you than I was 72 hours ago so that's good I guess. I dunno. Talking about assigning credit in mafia is weird. Like I really value different things than other people do. And this isn't a productive conversation.

    @Highroller talk to me more about KJ. You deflected last time I asked you to explain the scum read and I gave you parts of why I'm town reading him. It's your turn to justify this scum read because to me he's very obviously town.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Osie that feels like a big misread of what I was saying. The game has obviously advanced, I don't think your gambit particularly changed it because the slot you inherited was so easy to push regardless.

    Like you couldn't have known that at the time (barring a scum chst or you breaking your own gimmick) but yeah. Everyone was going to either push you or shrug. It's where the game was. I am actually confident that's why you drew so many emotional responses.

    I think I needed to reread your ISO.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Well this has to be a high watermark for entrance gambits. We've had 3 (at wildly different stages of the game at that) and they seem to have amounted to nothing.

    Anyway I think I'm happier with my vote than I was 3 hours ago. So thinking this through it had to be before knowing alignment or being sure he was getting replaced in so the action itself is NAI. The fact is any impact it could have had is destroyed by the fact that GJ was already an easy push for the way things finished. So like being scummier doesn't really change that much.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from tomsloger »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Quote from tomsloger »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Tom What bumped KJ and me back up in your eyes tom? iirc we'd been slipping down your reads for a while.

    Checking that last two times you colored we were in our own tier below DV and Rod.

    Similarly what improved KA and Tubba in your eyes?
    meh?

    Kjs not filling me with confidence but ive mostly liked you today. Mostly just feeling the mechanics a little less

    Kami and tubba didnt really improve so much as vaimes dipping
    Then the tiers looking off.
    But as implied, middle tiers are real muddy and gray rn

    You'd consistently had Highroller above KA and Tubba. I was much more interested in the HR fall than the vaimes one which I could track easily. Especially with you seeming to agree with Chris' Tau read/excitement. I can get behind the middle being a mess, I just didn't think you had HR as part of it.

    *furrows eyebrows and wishes I'd colored your 'm' orange*
    its not a fall though? Hr is the same place, tubba/kami joined him because i have enough people im negative on

    Dont really understand your eyebrow furrowing though its more clerical than anything else. Would prolly say kami is actually uo with highroller and tubba is lower than the two but i still didnt want to put him the next one down?

    Still standing by it. Though the only important move to me was vaimes down

    Meh... It probably doesn't matter but like I'm pretty sure that's a contradiction. Like HR had always been higher in your reads than KA and Tubba and if he didn't fall and they didn't rise having them together doesn't add up. But again, pretty sure Osie is just scum and it doesn't matter.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from tomsloger »
    Real talk grape i dont think youre showing enough recency bias

    Theres... some number of worlds where scum didnt really have to do *anything* until chris replaced in...

    Even scumETR worlds they would have mostly pretty easy stuff to react to.

    So yeah i think youve got too much d1 going into your vaimes and kami reads basically. Maybe me too tbh but whatever

    I was trying really hard not to give into recency bias in that post because I wanted to put KA even higher than I did. Vaimes I'm not really to make a recency read on because he's mostly just absent and while his pop-in was wolfy it was just a one pop-in.

    You? Ehhhhhh... My read of you is all over the place (hence all the colors). I'm of so many different minds about you and Osie right now that I'm just not trying to sort through it because I need to do a full deep dive. Which I don't really have time to do.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from Killjoy »
    So does everyone have the same scum list? I'm seeing a lot of the same scum list.

    I mean tom is still technically in mine but it sure looks that way which is a concern, but one for later given that we're 20ish hours from deadline.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from tomsloger »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Tom What bumped KJ and me back up in your eyes tom? iirc we'd been slipping down your reads for a while.

    Checking that last two times you colored we were in our own tier below DV and Rod.

    Similarly what improved KA and Tubba in your eyes?
    meh?

    Kjs not filling me with confidence but ive mostly liked you today. Mostly just feeling the mechanics a little less

    Kami and tubba didnt really improve so much as vaimes dipping
    Then the tiers looking off.
    But as implied, middle tiers are real muddy and gray rn

    You'd consistently had Highroller above KA and Tubba. I was much more interested in the HR fall than the vaimes one which I could track easily. Especially with you seeming to agree with Chris' Tau read/excitement. I can get behind the middle being a mess, I just didn't think you had HR as part of it.

    *furrows eyebrows and wishes I'd colored your 'm' orange*
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Yeah that's a strong reason as well, especially when his reasoning is that he thinks that slot is more likely to be a scum PR.

    Anyway let's just see where I'm at.

    I'm town, KJ knows my flavor and protected me D1 so he's town. Rod has been tonally right and hasn't betrayed any sort of mindset slips. He's been absent which is a slight worry but when he was around he felt right. Sir Chris is town because everyone but me town read DV and I'm trusting that.

    Grape
    KJ, Rod, Chris


    Tau's gambit was most likely to come from town and Highroller feels like his stubborn, principled self. Tubba had a strongly townie tone in the mid game but his lack of activity early or late is a worry. Vaimes has been in this category. His recent pop in was wolfy but his vibe when going back and forth with GJ was townie enough that I'm happy to keep him here for now.

    Highroller, Tubba, Vaimes

    Tom and Osie are their own special bundle. I firmly believed that one of them is likely to be scum based on the first half of the game but Chris's strong town reads on both have been persuasive. I'm not there yet but I'm doubting my "One of these is always scum" stance now, but am not ready to completely give up on it yet. If it wasn't obvious I think Osie is vastly more likely to be scum of the two.

    Tomsie

    That leaves us with KA, RE, Anak, LnG, and Vez. RE is a weird one. I have had serious misgivings about the slot throughout the game. I kind of want to ignore it for now and see what RE does. EtR's response to the Tau play was bizarre for either alignment. I'm inclined to think the slot is town just by the number of players in my PoE who pushed it hard. But I really don't have a strong read on it from it's own play. A few things have felt townie, a few have felt scummy.

    I think Vez has been all over the place in my reads. I really need to refresh on this slot. The only thing in my mind without checking has been his play since Chris entered the thread which is giving me a strong scum vibe but a lot of that is from the bloodthirstiness and Vez is generally bloodthirsty as an NAI thing.

    LnG probably should have died D1. Still would be happy to resolve that slot but it's been surpassed by others (anak and Osie).

    KA I actually have felt really good about in the past 6 hours. I kind of want to town read him but I haven't done the diligence and don't have the time to reread so he can be nil for now, which is probably the best ranking I've given him all game.

    Anak has been discussed enough recently.

    Grape
    KJ, Rod, Chris

    Highroller, Tubba, Vaimes
    Tomsie
    EtR
    KA
    Vez/LnG
    Anak
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    @Osie I can see the tom/anak being ruled out by anak being scum because tom was the first, loudest, and most consistent voice pushing Mindreaver. To me an Anak scum flip doesn't completely scratch tom off the list but it would until a game losing situation. I tried to push Mind as town and tom was all over me forcing me to justify my read and pushing back on it.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    @Tom What bumped KJ and me back up in your eyes tom? iirc we'd been slipping down your reads for a while.

    Checking that last two times you colored we were in our own tier below DV and Rod.

    Similarly what improved KA and Tubba in your eyes?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    @Vaimes completely fair and iirc you had announced that. I'm definitely not worried about your amount of playing, just felt the pop in was wolfy. If you just be you I'm sure it will clear itself up.

    As for my play this game, you know I've drastically changed my style because of KJ's check. It just so happened that I was intentionally playing that way to start the game as well to use the Wisp wagon for reactions.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from Vaimes »
    I'm freeeee.

    What's the tl;dr.

    Chris came in, said Osie was town, most people sheeped him and we have tied wagons on Osie and Anak. Anak didn't exactly sparkle under pressure in his two big posts.

    You're being floated as a very plausible partner for Anak.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Well apart from the faith in me making good decisions that all makes sense. I'm a master of saying and doing reasonable things and then making awful decisions. Luckily people only seem to remember the first half!

    Do you have thoughts on Tubba/LnGrrrR yet? I'm very interested in your Tubba read in particular at this stage.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from Sir Chris »
    Grapefruit is my favorite person tbh
    <3 you too, but I'm suprised you're okay with me voting Osie.
    Quote from tomsloger »
    @grape
    I probably drop out of character some amount. But ill never admit when or how

    Not really this game. Some of my frustration has been real i guess, but thats more folded in to persona than taking myself out of it (and some amount of that frustration wasnt game related anyway)


    Yeah fair enough that's what I expected. I definitely picked up on some non game frustration towards the end of D1.

    Now I want to read a bunch of your non posting restriction games and see if I can pick up on any different persona.

    I'm going to do some digging on Vaimes/Anak/Osie and make sure there aren't any disassociatives I'm missing.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    hmmmm

    Vote: Osie

    I like having the wagons tied. With a couple days left and a bunch of people off in nowhereland I want everyone to have to take a stance.

    Anyway Anak's reply wasn't great. There is a cognitive dissonance between praising Sir Chris for coming in being enthused and energized and recognizing him as town while disliking other players recognizing the same thing and following like lemmings. And that's before really differentiating between a group of sheeps feels so wrong to me. Even if I accept the reading of Anak having respect for Chris going back that makes it harder to swallow, that wouldn't make the sheeping votes bad, just wrong from his POV. They would be good votes because sheeping Chris is a smart thing to do.

    Then there was all the wonky mindset stuff about calling Osie scum while giving Chris credit for moving the wagon off Osie.

    Anway my other little things from yesterday: Vaimes not doing anything except moving his vote is actually a bad look and the vote I'd have expected Anak to single out. He's been more or less not a presence in the thread unlike KJ and myself. His vote is the one that could be easily seen as opportunistic given his lack of focus anywhere else. It's the one that looks like it could have been a response to a buddy yelling "get in there and do x."

    Lumping Osie in with the other votes is equally silly. Self preservation votes are to be expected and more or less NAI. If you want to paint Osie as scum there is plenty to do it with but that vote isn't one of the reasons.

    I had some thoughts on tom's self meta but they aren't really relevant to this game. More or less I think the performance aspect is very honest and accurate. One question: do you think you slip out of "character" much?
    Posted in: Mafia
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