At this point I'm good with Lynching KJ as well, it just seems slightly less optimal since we have a pretty good idea that he already burned out (the ten vote super lynch doesn't seem like it's a normal ability), so the Grapefruit lynch is overall safer with me confirming Anak and Anak blocking KJ.
Despite mechanics looking pretty dodgy here, I'm still never lynching cyan, because if Anak is town, then he's cleared him, and if Anak is scum, then cyan can't be anyway.
Ohh that last reply was for Mindreaver anyway. Not Cyan.
Anyway I'm definitely having increased suspicion of Shadow after RSJT's vote breakdown. Yeah he went out of his way to confirm my ability and locked himself into a targeted role, but he did that in Overwatch too. Not completely outside his scum range and he loves to pocket people...
No one is worried that the two investigative roles are contradictory? Like I get they both have heavy draw backs but there is a lot of power here.
@Shadow why would you watch Az N2? You've been saying the ability was chosen at random, wouldn't the risk of it being track again be a massive worry for you? Your actions are still not quite making sense to me.
@Cyan @Shadow the chat opened at the start of D1. I was chosen Night 0 and the chat opened at the start of D1. Gruffin claimed to choose me given that we played together offsite and I was somewhat familiar with the meta here. Our chat consisted of sharing reads, and me providing meta. I partially claimed to Gruffin before I claimed in the thread leaving out the self targeting part as a safeguard. I've been pocketed in a neighbor chat before so I was cautious but Gruffin struck me as townie and garnered independent town reads in the thread.
@Shadow in retrospect that makes a ton of sense. Wish I'd seen it in time.
Also it's not like I studied you extensively. I just really enjoyed reading bare bones and Overwatch as largely my introduction to the game. And you just happen to be a standout part of that.
First since it looks like Gruffins slot is going to be mod killed I want to go ahead and preemptively claim something: Gruffinchops opened a chat with me D1 and claimed to be a 1 shot neighborizour. Our chat strongly led me to believe that they were town.
Anyway @Quixotic most of your points I agree on. For example Shadows' play seems EV+ for town and he could easily have never done that and kept pushing for my lunch today.
The key places I don't agree on are KJ, Rhand, and Fulcrum/typh.
With Fulcrum I can see where you're coming from but I don't think it's as strong as you make it out to be. White knighting happens.
With KJ I get the conviction tell, and the trap laid for Bur. But the setup was obvious enough that I am not sure it couldn't have come from scum. I also think that while conviction in a read is great I really need to reread his case on Rhand and see what's in it. I'm sure Rhand/KJ isn't scum v scum and I'm leaning not town v town. I just need to read more.
Second I found your reasoning for not lynching Rhand today really lackluster. Like that was just weak. It boils down to you don't think Rhand and Mind are scum together but you're not super confident in either and you want to lynch mind first because you don't like his claim? You are going to have to explain that to me again.
l I had horrible reads D1. I think I was too afraid of shadow's scum game? Rereading and having not taken notes I have no clue what I was so sure DV was scum in retrospect...
Cool set up tom and awesome gifs. Thanks for hosting.
@Cyan Why can scum shadow never make that point? If he's scum Az is someone he can choose to NK down the line.
And if Az continues to push DV I'll vote for him, but I don't think he's going to given his 801 where he pretty much says that he's accepting DV as cleared.
@D_V I'll reread some of D1 with that interpretation in mind. Still think shadow makes more sense though.
Cantrip has appeared very town today (I largely agree on Qui's take on rushing to get the Cyan post out before Bur's ability resolved). I think I'd rather not lynch Mindreaver today... I know that his behavior has been somewhat suspect, but I'd rather not risk lynching town investigative power at this stage.
Cantrip
Mindreaver
That leaves Rhand, Cyan, Typh, KJ. Which tells me I'm wrong somewhere because KJ and Rhand are definitely not scum together after everything that went down in the lead up to Bur activating his Desperado. I will try to do full reads on the both of them shortly and see where I come down. I tried to reset my feeling on them to neutral after KJ's case and not town read him for posting a wall.
I have effectively no read on the Typh slot and would like to give him time to catch up.
Cyan I'm really torn on because we've mindmelded on a lot of stuff this game. And I know I'm town so he could have just been seeing the same things as me, but he was gung-ho on two pushes that are confirmed town now... So I have to pay attention.
So I guess I'm most interested in lynching among either Typh or KJ/Rhand and need to read those two a lot closer to and more from Typh when life permits see where I fall on that spectrum.
Well if I believe Anak is town, which I do based off of his claimed flavor then scum has to be AZ or shadow. Or maybe KJ, but I really don't think that role is balanced as scum...
Also re Anak: I have seen many games where scum can use abilities and assign a kill. Especially when they are the last scum alive. But his early going in on flavor says town to me.
I still don't believe scum Az ever busses that ferociously so I'd rather look at shadow first I think.
@DV i know you feel Az is ignoring your points and pushing you hard but do you really think he bussed that hard as scum? Like your whole defense is that you voted for tom and Hunt. Which Azrael did, but also lead the wagon in a lot of ways. So your defense that you aren't scum is the same as Az's defense that he isn't scum. Well that and Anak clearing you.
So with Shadow the main thing I was town reading him for was his interaction with Kpaca. I just reread it and on reflection I'm so sold that it couldn't come from scum.
Was that ever a question? D_V is clear too.
Anyway I'm definitely having increased suspicion of Shadow after RSJT's vote breakdown. Yeah he went out of his way to confirm my ability and locked himself into a targeted role, but he did that in Overwatch too. Not completely outside his scum range and he loves to pocket people...
Claimed here, I'm Cythare VT.
Well that makes a lot more sense then...
I guess I need to reread KJ and Anak? I mean it could still be a fake claim, but it seems to line up pretty well.
@Shadow why would you watch Az N2? You've been saying the ability was chosen at random, wouldn't the risk of it being track again be a massive worry for you? Your actions are still not quite making sense to me.
Shadow give me your timeline one more time N2 you watched Az who no one visited? Who did you target N1?
Also white knighting is a thing and for a bit there it looked like Az was getting lynched despite Shadows' reluctance.
Also it's not like I studied you extensively. I just really enjoyed reading bare bones and Overwatch as largely my introduction to the game. And you just happen to be a standout part of that.
Anyway @Quixotic most of your points I agree on. For example Shadows' play seems EV+ for town and he could easily have never done that and kept pushing for my lunch today.
The key places I don't agree on are KJ, Rhand, and Fulcrum/typh.
With Fulcrum I can see where you're coming from but I don't think it's as strong as you make it out to be. White knighting happens.
With KJ I get the conviction tell, and the trap laid for Bur. But the setup was obvious enough that I am not sure it couldn't have come from scum. I also think that while conviction in a read is great I really need to reread his case on Rhand and see what's in it. I'm sure Rhand/KJ isn't scum v scum and I'm leaning not town v town. I just need to read more.
Second I found your reasoning for not lynching Rhand today really lackluster. Like that was just weak. It boils down to you don't think Rhand and Mind are scum together but you're not super confident in either and you want to lynch mind first because you don't like his claim? You are going to have to explain that to me again.
I'm Cythare my flavor is about confusing nicknames and mistaken identities, I'm VT.
Anyway when I flip town Shadow seems like a much more likely place to look than Az. Maybe KJ but I don't ever see it being DV, Cyan, Anak, or Az.
l I had horrible reads D1. I think I was too afraid of shadow's scum game? Rereading and having not taken notes I have no clue what I was so sure DV was scum in retrospect...
Cool set up tom and awesome gifs. Thanks for hosting.
And if Az continues to push DV I'll vote for him, but I don't think he's going to given his 801 where he pretty much says that he's accepting DV as cleared.
@D_V I'll reread some of D1 with that interpretation in mind. Still think shadow makes more sense though.
I'm town, dead townies are town, and Hunt is town.
Grape
Hunt
AGGJ
Bur
I have very strong reads on Rodemy, GruffinSlot, Qui, SJT, and Shadow.
Rodemy
GruffSlot
Quixotic
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Shadow
Cantrip has appeared very town today (I largely agree on Qui's take on rushing to get the Cyan post out before Bur's ability resolved). I think I'd rather not lynch Mindreaver today... I know that his behavior has been somewhat suspect, but I'd rather not risk lynching town investigative power at this stage.
Cantrip
Mindreaver
That leaves Rhand, Cyan, Typh, KJ. Which tells me I'm wrong somewhere because KJ and Rhand are definitely not scum together after everything that went down in the lead up to Bur activating his Desperado. I will try to do full reads on the both of them shortly and see where I come down. I tried to reset my feeling on them to neutral after KJ's case and not town read him for posting a wall.
I have effectively no read on the Typh slot and would like to give him time to catch up.
Cyan I'm really torn on because we've mindmelded on a lot of stuff this game. And I know I'm town so he could have just been seeing the same things as me, but he was gung-ho on two pushes that are confirmed town now... So I have to pay attention.
So I guess I'm most interested in lynching among either Typh or KJ/Rhand and need to read those two a lot closer to and more from Typh when life permits see where I fall on that spectrum.
Also re Anak: I have seen many games where scum can use abilities and assign a kill. Especially when they are the last scum alive. But his early going in on flavor says town to me.
I still don't believe scum Az ever busses that ferociously so I'd rather look at shadow first I think.
@DV i know you feel Az is ignoring your points and pushing you hard but do you really think he bussed that hard as scum? Like your whole defense is that you voted for tom and Hunt. Which Azrael did, but also lead the wagon in a lot of ways. So your defense that you aren't scum is the same as Az's defense that he isn't scum. Well that and Anak clearing you.
So with Shadow the main thing I was town reading him for was his interaction with Kpaca. I just reread it and on reflection I'm so sold that it couldn't come from scum.
Vote: Shadow