Blue can counter either of these but realistically their best shot is to counter Painter with Spell Snare if they're on the draw or Mana Leak / Remove Soul / Essence Scatter / Rune Snag. Even after it hits play, Painter can be Boomerang'd or Unsummoned. All in all, blue might have the hardest time dealing with the combo.
Red probably has the easiest time with cards like Ancient Grudge and Shattering Spree breaking both combo pieces and Painter's Servant rests at 3 toughness, the magic number for Lightning Bolt vulnerability.
I think it could be powerful but not meta-warping. I'd always prefer a combo revolving around permanents than meta-magic. every color gets a way to interact with and beat the combo without just having to race it (instead of just Black and Blue disrupting it).
And this of course, is all assuming a chance to go off at turn 3.
A deck could still be made though, and I think given all the deck loses it'd be more than fair. I think the "oops, I win" could be a problem as it could be a T3 win with a perfect hand but I think it is an otherwise very easy to interact with combo (as it requires an artifact and an artifact creature, probably the two easiest things to remove in Magic)
This post of course is all being typed by a Painter's Servant lover who prefers Modern over Legacy.
I mean, its somethign YuGiOh did for like "forever" , referencing clearly cards and make the obvisious decks and cards that clearly work with specific other cards and reference names all over.
I think he likes that because he's a Vorthos and it shows the flavor of the game while not having to come straight out and say it all in flavor text. While Captain's Call and Captain of the Watch could go into a token or soldier deck together they don't form a combo or anything and Wizards isn't building a deck for us by printing those cards.
Captain of the Watch gives you a lord and 3 1/1 white soldier tokens. Captain's call gives you 3 1/1 white soldier tokens. While they could work together I think the reference is nothing more than a throwback to it and not Wizards telling us these two cards combo. I think you'd have more of a case if they named cards Grindstone and Grindstone Scarecrow
That being said I love thinking about Purple, even the other 4 extra colors in MSE too. Fan based works and alternate color pies are awesome, but as far as the real game goes I'd like to keep it WUBRG
Odric just seems so lacking in usefulness next to other white creatures (Really not a bad card, but I don't see a home for it.) but for some reason I love that card. Maybe it's because he really feels like a tactician or explores some largely unexplored space (not much outside of Master Warcraft). I think I'd like to see more of this kind of card.
They do fit, this is just a thought experiment on how it could have been done differently from the beginning (like a larger scale Planar Chaos). I don't think these ideas are "right", I love the color pie. I thought this would be interesting.
The flavor as set out by HGaramond is different than the color pie we have now, though admittedly I can see how my own Mythics are analogue to existing colors.
I can't express nuances of each color with one card each but ideally they'd have pieces of the current pie in new configurations with weirder, newer mechanics in the mix. Yellow for example is THE aggressive meta-magic color touting mana accel, card draw, weak burn and short-term gain cards. The biggest advantage to 5 different colors is that it allows me to put things where they otherwise wouldn't go. Pink would be one of the best enchantment users and destroyers and lacks the direct damage to creatures Red has.
That all being said, if it feels insignificant to me (or to others reading this) most of them wouldn't need that many changes to be WUBRG.
Purple is the Dreamer. Purple is fueled by its imagination and its will power. Purple makes up its own rules as its goes along, never taking no for an answer. Nothing is impossible for Purple.
Purple's allies are Yellow and Pink. In Yellow, Purple sees the same determination and drive. In Pink, Purple sees understanding and support. Purple's enemies are Orange and Brown. In Orange, Purple sees no sense of imagination or creativity. In Brown, Purple sees "the man" who will keep it from its goals.
Yellow is the Opportunist. Yellow is fueled by a never ending perseverance. Yellow's goal is to make the best for itself, and it will do anything to make sure it does.
Yellow's allies are Purple and Orange. Yellow is a combination of Purple's drive and Orange's resolve. Yellow will do whatever it must, but it will also be reasonable. Like purple, it will never quit. But like Orange, it realizes its limitations. Yellow's enemies are Brown and Pink. In Brown, Yellow sees a color that will never do anything for itself. In Pink, Yellow sees a color distracted by the needs of those around it.
Orange is the Realist. Orange accepts the limitations of its world, and uses them to its advantage. Orange does not want to change or accomplish anything, but rather embrace that which has been given. Orange is small minded, but strong.
Orange's allies are Yellow and Brown. To Orange, Yellow shows an understanding of the "natural" way. To Orange, Brown shows the successes of a system built within the world. Orange's enemies are Purple and Pink. Purple is a mad man who wishes to meddle in the natural way. Pink, on the other hand, is a "hippie" that must accept reality instead of trying to help everyone.
Brown is the collectivist. Brown's entire philosophy revolves around the group. Everything Brown does is focused solely on the good of everyone.
Brown's allies are Orange and Pink. In Orange, Brown sees a color that will acknowledge the group as being more important. In Pink, Brown sees a color willing to help all of those who need it. Browns' enemies are Purple and Yellow. Both of these colors are driven off of personal wants or gains, which is in direct opposition to Brown's philosophy.
Pink is the lover. Pink is focused on making the best life possible for its friends and family. Pink wishes it lived in a world with no conflict at all. Unlike Brown, Pink does have its own agenda and does focus on certain individuals more than others.
Pink's allies are Purple and Brown. Purple is an idealist that will fight with Pink to make it's dreams come true. Brown realizes the importance of the group. Pink's enemies are Yellow and Orange. Yellow only looks out for itself, and does not create any kind of relation ships. Orange wants to keep things they way they are, and wants conflict to remain as it is part of the natural order.
So summer is coming and I will have more time to dedicate to designing a "set". However a full set, even a small full set takes a lot of planning and dedication. Instead I'd like to make 5 theme/event/duel decks to represent my interpretations of these colors.
Typically you want to design your commons first and your splashy cards last but in order to give these decks a good theme I think designing their splashy cards comes first. When these are critiqued, tweaked and fixed I think the rest of the decks can fall into place.
Here's my 4-cmc cycle of Mythic Legendaries:
YELLOWGUY2:):)
Legendary Creature - XXXXXXX (M)
~’s power is equal to the number of cards in your hand.
When ~ deals damage discard your hand and draw cards equal to the damage dealt.
4/4
This is the only unfinished one. There's so much to do with Yellow I can't just pick something to focus on. Ideally I can utilize a lot of its strengths but I had trouble making this Mythic splashy and interesting.
Etadel2:embarrass::embarrass:
Legendary Creature - Faerie Wizard (M)
Whenever a spell is cast, Scry 1.
Once per turn you may reveal the top card of your library. If it is an instant or sorcery and its CMC is less than the number of spells played this turn you may play it without paying its mana cost.
0/5
Originally didn't have a once per turn restriction. I could see this being absolutely nutty if that were the case. With Purple being the combo color I think this is a good representative.
Filkor Brave2:unibrow::unibrow:
Legendary Creature - Dwarf Shaman (M)
If a player has at least one more creature than every other player they can not play creatures. The same applies for artifacts and enchantments.
3/4
Meepamog, Industrialist2:cookie::cookie:
Legendary Creature - Kobold Rigger (M)
Adapt (Whenever a creature with power greater than Meepamog, Industrialist's power enters the battlefield under your control, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Meepamog, Industrialist.)
Remove 3 +1/+1 counters from creatures you control: Put a 2/2 colorless Construct token onto the battlefield under your control.
2/4
For those who followed GDS2, I saw Ethan's design for the first time about a month ago and fell in love with it. I think Evolve fits brown, but should definitely make its way to real magic some day.
Aoli Steelsoul2:heart::heart:
Legendary Creature - Nibbler Warrior
Deathtouch
Captivate (If Aoli Steelsoul would deal enough combat damage to destroy a creature, you may instead have that creature exiled and returned to the battlefield under your control.)
1/3
It was hard trying to make a love-mechanic. In the end I decided that Pink should have a weenie element, but should also be good at stealing other creatures. They are charming afterall. I chose Nibbler as a creature type because I wanted something that wasn't Rats (too ingrained in black) but I liked the look and feel of mice here.
-------------
So any feedback? Is the power level of anything way off? Most importantly, what are the favorites? I have two I like the most but I'd like to hear from other people.
Thixotropic: Your decklist didn't show up when I clicked the link. :/
Can't wait to see what you're brewing Aerron. Even if they don't work out you should post your thought process so we can get the ideas flowing.
Right now I'm thinking about an RG or Naya build. I don't typically like Green but it gives us some interesting options. I want to explore blue as a splash too but looking around to see what it could add to the deck is making me think there's a good reason blue isn't discussed much.
Haven't played it enough to say anything conclusive yet, but I like Guide so far. Biggest problem is he becomes lackluster if bridge sticks and usually you want it to. If he continues to just be dumped for R I might put Desperate Ritual in his place.
Maybe to give unused Basilisks utility we could add in Trash for Treasure? Gaka used that to great effect in a Gifts package. I have no ideas for other useful artifacts since we don't have gifts or treasure mage and faithless looting should never dump bridge, but I think the idea should be put out there.
Also have to add, I know Ancient Tomb isn't legal so I wasn't getting on you for its exclusion. Just wishing we had it available.
I didn't enter this tournament but I did run this in Lantern's first Modern tournament. I'm a big fan of developing this deck if other people are too. Right now my decklist is posted elsewhere. I want to get more feedback but not without testing the suggestions I've already been given. I'm considering going back to Wr right now, even though Wrb has been working for me.
Still there hasn't been much activity in this thread so if it keeps up that way then it's probably safe to say it's run its course. :/
I used a slightly modified version of the second list in your recent post DOLZero and some decks just cannot win once ensnaring bridge goes up (eg. Mono Black discard). I tried Genju of the Spires in there as somebody suggested but it didn't really do the trick, if I have a moon effect down against somebody running enough non-basics to make Genju relevant it becomes more of a "win-more" card.
On Basilisk Collar: I've never had anything but 'cute' interactions with this. I feel like this would be invaluable in destroying fatties but it always comes up at the wrong time. Keeping this in but I've been unlucky so far.
Turn two plays are weaker for the deck too since so many important cards rest at 1cmc or 3cmc (where's Ancient Tomb!?). Later today I think I'll mainboard Simian Spirit Guides or Desperate Ritual even though it's supposed to be a slower deck so I can power out a Moon, Bridge or Koth a turn earlier.
Dash shouldn't be a mythic. There's nothing overly complex or complicated about her, especially in a set with Discord. Power level =/= rarity, intentionally making all the strongest cards rarer would make constructed much more expensive. Rarity is correlated with splashiness and how much is going on.
I understand he is supposed to be confusing just like Celestia is supposed to be banishing everything temporarily but there are certain rules to remember when designing for Magic that have been established over its 20 year history. Something that complex is far less interesting than something with a nice, unique and coherent design.
Seriously, he has flying and protection from everything (2 forms of evasion, one of which prevents him from ever being blocked) and a clause for something weird to happen if a creature blocks him (grants them phasing). That line is unnecessary and I think if you reflect on that card you'll notice the same could be said about almost every other line.
Also with Rarity: Either make her effect more black or make her mono-white. From a gameplay point of view there is no reason for her to be black.
Fluttershy: I think this is good design, probably not too abusable and seems cost appropriate. Rainbow Dash: Too cheap. 1G is a grizzly bear and for 1R you're giving us a bear with flying and haste. I think it's too much. Also, although I understand the flavor reasons for the last ability it seems awfully narrow. Pinkie Pie: The coin flip thing might be confusing to beginners, but other than that it seems fine. She is certainly killable for an alt-win con but I don't think unplayable either. Twilight Sparkle: Probably fine, though it's an alt-win con requiring a card that carries its own alt-win con so that feels a little weird. Rarity: I don't see the black in her at all. Enchantments and Artifacts are more white (Stoneforge Mystic + Idyllic Tutor). Also it's powerful to have a card be a tutor and an enabler all in one. This could be played alongside Batterskull or even worse Eldrazi Conscription for a 12/12 flying annihilator Eldrazi Pony (for 3WW). Maybe limit the CMC of what she can find. Princess Luna: This is hard to gauge if she is priced right but I think she is doing too much. Maybe limit her to one or two options when she comes into play. The first for example could be "Target player loses X life and draws X cards" so it's only one mode but it has two entirely different uses. Princess Celestia: Wins the game on resolution it feels, not sure I like this to be honest. Maybe a lower Suspend, ten turns is a whole lot even if they still have their lands. Discord, God of Chaos: He is doing way too much. Even his mana cost is confusing. I'd strip it down to R's and B's or even 2/R's and 2/B's. It's a mess now. But coin flips, phasing, alternate win conditions, this goes beyond mythic and wouldn't fit on a card.
All in all you have good ideas but I think they need to be broken up more. Each card is trying to accomplish way more than it reasonably should and don't seem to have a larger united theme because of it. Best of luck!
I'm loving what you have so far. You and Foo are doing an excellent job. Weighing in on banashing act, it seems like it could be absurdly powerful on somebody as repeatable instant speed removal for as low as U.
Blue can counter either of these but realistically their best shot is to counter Painter with Spell Snare if they're on the draw or Mana Leak / Remove Soul / Essence Scatter / Rune Snag. Even after it hits play, Painter can be Boomerang'd or Unsummoned. All in all, blue might have the hardest time dealing with the combo.
Black has a plethora of discard to utilize. My most hated card Inquisition of Kozilek could make the Painter player discard either card on the play or discard Servant on the draw. Same goes for Thoughtseize and pretty much any other commonly used discard. Doom Blade can kill Painter on the play or draw, same with Geth's Verdict and Warren Weirding . The black player also gets Murder, Gatekeeper of Malakir or Liliana of the Veil on the play.
Red probably has the easiest time with cards like Ancient Grudge and Shattering Spree breaking both combo pieces and Painter's Servant rests at 3 toughness, the magic number for Lightning Bolt vulnerability.
I think it could be powerful but not meta-warping. I'd always prefer a combo revolving around permanents than meta-magic. every color gets a way to interact with and beat the combo without just having to race it (instead of just Black and Blue disrupting it).
And this of course, is all assuming a chance to go off at turn 3.
A deck could still be made though, and I think given all the deck loses it'd be more than fair. I think the "oops, I win" could be a problem as it could be a T3 win with a perfect hand but I think it is an otherwise very easy to interact with combo (as it requires an artifact and an artifact creature, probably the two easiest things to remove in Magic)
This post of course is all being typed by a Painter's Servant lover who prefers Modern over Legacy.
I think he likes that because he's a Vorthos and it shows the flavor of the game while not having to come straight out and say it all in flavor text. While Captain's Call and Captain of the Watch could go into a token or soldier deck together they don't form a combo or anything and Wizards isn't building a deck for us by printing those cards.
Captain of the Watch gives you a lord and 3 1/1 white soldier tokens. Captain's call gives you 3 1/1 white soldier tokens. While they could work together I think the reference is nothing more than a throwback to it and not Wizards telling us these two cards combo. I think you'd have more of a case if they named cards Grindstone and Grindstone Scarecrow
That being said I love thinking about Purple, even the other 4 extra colors in MSE too. Fan based works and alternate color pies are awesome, but as far as the real game goes I'd like to keep it WUBRG
I can't express nuances of each color with one card each but ideally they'd have pieces of the current pie in new configurations with weirder, newer mechanics in the mix. Yellow for example is THE aggressive meta-magic color touting mana accel, card draw, weak burn and short-term gain cards. The biggest advantage to 5 different colors is that it allows me to put things where they otherwise wouldn't go. Pink would be one of the best enchantment users and destroyers and lacks the direct damage to creatures Red has.
That all being said, if it feels insignificant to me (or to others reading this) most of them wouldn't need that many changes to be WUBRG.
So in looking for threads on purple I started coming across topics about all 5 of the alternate colors. I personally was interested in some of the work that had been put into the flavor of them.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=320529
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=326259
Purple's allies are Yellow and Pink. In Yellow, Purple sees the same determination and drive. In Pink, Purple sees understanding and support. Purple's enemies are Orange and Brown. In Orange, Purple sees no sense of imagination or creativity. In Brown, Purple sees "the man" who will keep it from its goals.
Yellow is the Opportunist. Yellow is fueled by a never ending perseverance. Yellow's goal is to make the best for itself, and it will do anything to make sure it does.
Yellow's allies are Purple and Orange. Yellow is a combination of Purple's drive and Orange's resolve. Yellow will do whatever it must, but it will also be reasonable. Like purple, it will never quit. But like Orange, it realizes its limitations. Yellow's enemies are Brown and Pink. In Brown, Yellow sees a color that will never do anything for itself. In Pink, Yellow sees a color distracted by the needs of those around it.
Orange is the Realist. Orange accepts the limitations of its world, and uses them to its advantage. Orange does not want to change or accomplish anything, but rather embrace that which has been given. Orange is small minded, but strong.
Orange's allies are Yellow and Brown. To Orange, Yellow shows an understanding of the "natural" way. To Orange, Brown shows the successes of a system built within the world. Orange's enemies are Purple and Pink. Purple is a mad man who wishes to meddle in the natural way. Pink, on the other hand, is a "hippie" that must accept reality instead of trying to help everyone.
Brown is the collectivist. Brown's entire philosophy revolves around the group. Everything Brown does is focused solely on the good of everyone.
Brown's allies are Orange and Pink. In Orange, Brown sees a color that will acknowledge the group as being more important. In Pink, Brown sees a color willing to help all of those who need it. Browns' enemies are Purple and Yellow. Both of these colors are driven off of personal wants or gains, which is in direct opposition to Brown's philosophy.
Pink is the lover. Pink is focused on making the best life possible for its friends and family. Pink wishes it lived in a world with no conflict at all. Unlike Brown, Pink does have its own agenda and does focus on certain individuals more than others.
Pink's allies are Purple and Brown. Purple is an idealist that will fight with Pink to make it's dreams come true. Brown realizes the importance of the group. Pink's enemies are Yellow and Orange. Yellow only looks out for itself, and does not create any kind of relation ships. Orange wants to keep things they way they are, and wants conflict to remain as it is part of the natural order.
So summer is coming and I will have more time to dedicate to designing a "set". However a full set, even a small full set takes a lot of planning and dedication. Instead I'd like to make 5 theme/event/duel decks to represent my interpretations of these colors.
Typically you want to design your commons first and your splashy cards last but in order to give these decks a good theme I think designing their splashy cards comes first. When these are critiqued, tweaked and fixed I think the rest of the decks can fall into place.
Here's my 4-cmc cycle of Mythic Legendaries:
YELLOWGUY 2:):)
Legendary Creature - XXXXXXX (M)
~’s power is equal to the number of cards in your hand.
When ~ deals damage discard your hand and draw cards equal to the damage dealt.
4/4
This is the only unfinished one. There's so much to do with Yellow I can't just pick something to focus on. Ideally I can utilize a lot of its strengths but I had trouble making this Mythic splashy and interesting.
Etadel 2:embarrass::embarrass:
Legendary Creature - Faerie Wizard (M)
Whenever a spell is cast, Scry 1.
Once per turn you may reveal the top card of your library. If it is an instant or sorcery and its CMC is less than the number of spells played this turn you may play it without paying its mana cost.
0/5
Originally didn't have a once per turn restriction. I could see this being absolutely nutty if that were the case. With Purple being the combo color I think this is a good representative.
Filkor Brave 2:unibrow::unibrow:
Legendary Creature - Dwarf Shaman (M)
If a player has at least one more creature than every other player they can not play creatures. The same applies for artifacts and enchantments.
3/4
Meepamog, Industrialist 2:cookie::cookie:
Legendary Creature - Kobold Rigger (M)
Adapt (Whenever a creature with power greater than Meepamog, Industrialist's power enters the battlefield under your control, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Meepamog, Industrialist.)
Remove 3 +1/+1 counters from creatures you control: Put a 2/2 colorless Construct token onto the battlefield under your control.
2/4
For those who followed GDS2, I saw Ethan's design for the first time about a month ago and fell in love with it. I think Evolve fits brown, but should definitely make its way to real magic some day.
Aoli Steelsoul 2:heart::heart:
Legendary Creature - Nibbler Warrior
Deathtouch
Captivate (If Aoli Steelsoul would deal enough combat damage to destroy a creature, you may instead have that creature exiled and returned to the battlefield under your control.)
1/3
It was hard trying to make a love-mechanic. In the end I decided that Pink should have a weenie element, but should also be good at stealing other creatures. They are charming afterall. I chose Nibbler as a creature type because I wanted something that wasn't Rats (too ingrained in black) but I liked the look and feel of mice here.
-------------
So any feedback? Is the power level of anything way off? Most importantly, what are the favorites? I have two I like the most but I'd like to hear from other people.
Can't wait to see what you're brewing Aerron. Even if they don't work out you should post your thought process so we can get the ideas flowing.
Right now I'm thinking about an RG or Naya build. I don't typically like Green but it gives us some interesting options. I want to explore blue as a splash too but looking around to see what it could add to the deck is making me think there's a good reason blue isn't discussed much.
Maybe to give unused Basilisks utility we could add in Trash for Treasure? Gaka used that to great effect in a Gifts package. I have no ideas for other useful artifacts since we don't have gifts or treasure mage and faithless looting should never dump bridge, but I think the idea should be put out there.
Also have to add, I know Ancient Tomb isn't legal so I wasn't getting on you for its exclusion. Just wishing we had it available.
Still there hasn't been much activity in this thread so if it keeps up that way then it's probably safe to say it's run its course. :/
On Basilisk Collar: I've never had anything but 'cute' interactions with this. I feel like this would be invaluable in destroying fatties but it always comes up at the wrong time. Keeping this in but I've been unlucky so far.
Turn two plays are weaker for the deck too since so many important cards rest at 1cmc or 3cmc (where's Ancient Tomb!?). Later today I think I'll mainboard Simian Spirit Guides or Desperate Ritual even though it's supposed to be a slower deck so I can power out a Moon, Bridge or Koth a turn earlier.
I understand he is supposed to be confusing just like Celestia is supposed to be banishing everything temporarily but there are certain rules to remember when designing for Magic that have been established over its 20 year history. Something that complex is far less interesting than something with a nice, unique and coherent design.
Seriously, he has flying and protection from everything (2 forms of evasion, one of which prevents him from ever being blocked) and a clause for something weird to happen if a creature blocks him (grants them phasing). That line is unnecessary and I think if you reflect on that card you'll notice the same could be said about almost every other line.
Also with Rarity: Either make her effect more black or make her mono-white. From a gameplay point of view there is no reason for her to be black.
Rainbow Dash: Too cheap. 1G is a grizzly bear and for 1R you're giving us a bear with flying and haste. I think it's too much. Also, although I understand the flavor reasons for the last ability it seems awfully narrow.
Pinkie Pie: The coin flip thing might be confusing to beginners, but other than that it seems fine. She is certainly killable for an alt-win con but I don't think unplayable either.
Twilight Sparkle: Probably fine, though it's an alt-win con requiring a card that carries its own alt-win con so that feels a little weird.
Rarity: I don't see the black in her at all. Enchantments and Artifacts are more white (Stoneforge Mystic + Idyllic Tutor). Also it's powerful to have a card be a tutor and an enabler all in one. This could be played alongside Batterskull or even worse Eldrazi Conscription for a 12/12 flying annihilator Eldrazi Pony (for 3WW). Maybe limit the CMC of what she can find.
Princess Luna: This is hard to gauge if she is priced right but I think she is doing too much. Maybe limit her to one or two options when she comes into play. The first for example could be "Target player loses X life and draws X cards" so it's only one mode but it has two entirely different uses.
Princess Celestia: Wins the game on resolution it feels, not sure I like this to be honest. Maybe a lower Suspend, ten turns is a whole lot even if they still have their lands.
Discord, God of Chaos: He is doing way too much. Even his mana cost is confusing. I'd strip it down to R's and B's or even 2/R's and 2/B's. It's a mess now. But coin flips, phasing, alternate win conditions, this goes beyond mythic and wouldn't fit on a card.
All in all you have good ideas but I think they need to be broken up more. Each card is trying to accomplish way more than it reasonably should and don't seem to have a larger united theme because of it. Best of luck!
I'm loving what you have so far. You and Foo are doing an excellent job. Weighing in on banashing act, it seems like it could be absurdly powerful on somebody as repeatable instant speed removal for as low as U.