Cockatrice hasn't been working for me today so I haven't had a chance to try something I just thought of, but in a more aggressive build would Mikaeus, the Lunarch have a place? He's a good way to spend mana in a deck that runs pretty low costs and can be searched for by your Ranger. Might just be a win-more card but I think he could possibly replace Honor of the Pure in builds that run that. Tomorrow I'll try running somebody else's deck making that change.
I'm sort of new so I may not be right, but my understanding is that the spell is on the stack until it resolves and only then does it go into the graveyard. So in order to flashback it Player B would need to activate it after it actually resolves for the first time, and at that point it will be useless against Player A's creature because the buff will have resolved.
By saying "I may be wrong," you're just telling everybody to ignore you. If you're sure of the answer, answer confidently. If you're not sure, leave the question for someone who is sure. It's okay to be wrong, but being wishy-washy doesn't help anybody.
And for the record, your post is entirely correct. -Carsten
Painter's Servant is my favorite card, I just have a soft spot for artists (see: Smeargle). Unfortunately I can't afford a playset of Imperial Recruiters. Looking for potential Modern uses outside of Jaya Ballard I saw a combo from EDH (before Painter was banned there) and wanted to see if it was viable and if he had any other uses. Here's something I threw together in 10 minutes and revised ever-so-slightly after an hour of 'testing'.
Tesya, Orzhov Scion combined with Painter's Servant in a white deck can be used for infinite removal when my creatures are painted black, ideally the source would be something like Spectral Procession. Combined with cards like Soul's Attendant this could generate infinite life too. The big thing however is staying alive until I can set this up. In testing against a Zoo deck on mtgdeckbuilder (not ideal, I had to play both sides) I noticed my star would frequently be Twilight Drover who, provided enough mana, could chump block my spirit tokens and replace every one with a net gain of +1/+1 counters.
This is nowhere near final, I found Elspeth Tirel relatively useless as she came into play so late. Likewise Circle of Protection: Black seemed to not come into play when I'd have my Painter. These are probably very off-base however, more likely is that these cards are weak against Zoo. A card I intend to try soon is Wall of Omens.
So with that all being said does anybody have anything to say on the viability of a deck like this? On our favorite scarecrow's other Modern uses?
(My deck is an example, not the topic. Feel free to share completely different ideas)
I haven't been here long but I don't think I've seen this sort of problem here. Really the only thing I haven't liked is the deletion of somewhat humorous spam threads, and I even acknowledge that that's the right decision. Either way if the mods were actually tyrannical and power hungry as you described I doubt this thread would help any...
I was excited about building this deck at some point but got side tracked... I was thinking that Oriss, samite Guardian could be somehow abused... May be with souless revival or grim harvest on the scepter. I was easily side tracked because There wasn't enough good other black stuff to fill out the deck... Being able to retreive SCM (if using blue) with one of these recursion cards on a stick would be neat.
in the end it all seemed too cute and I ended up with not enough space for a good finisher and then I put this project down to work on another deck.
That took me a little bit to get, but that's a cool little combo. Sadly I doubt I'll use it, I didn't want to splash black on this for a while and now I think I'm going to leave this deck in its current state- an Erayo deck I saw somewhere has stolen my heart. Thanks for the idea though, I am buying those cards because there's a good chance I'll go back to that.
Johnny/Spike (Offbeat designer)
It isn't just magic, I'm the equivalent of this in every other game I play that could be played competitively. I don't want to purposely lower my chances of winning but I don't feel the same pride if I can't make something my own. Pragmatism is certainly important because I never play with the intent to lose but I hate mirrors.
Also I feel this is important because it's why I'm a Spike, it's a good read: Sirlin's "Playing to Win"
From an ethical standpoint I hope they don't reprint those cards. I won't ever play Vintage or Legacy with anything but proxies but there is no reason to alienate what is probably the game's most dedicated players even if it would bring in more profit. Don't people usually patronize companies for making these kinds of decisions? Most of the people here are encouraging it.
From a card design perspective: I really like the lands not being reprinted because I appreciate all of the cool creative things they can do with lands that generate multiple colors like the shocklands. That aside I feel like multi-color lands without restrictions make it too easy to produce mana in 4 or 5 color decks where I feel such freedom should cost them a little.
On the restricted list in general though I think it needs to go. Not immediately but I feel eventually they should announce that after some period of time they will begin reprinting them. It should be a while's notice, lets say 3-5 years, so cards don't lose their value immediately and the small community of vintage/legacy won't be up in arms. It'd be nice for our most broad eternal meta to be approachable, it seems like there's just so much that can be done with a lot of the 571 cards they're refusing to print.
Ronyx: I didn't add Telling Time except to my sideboard but I made all the replacements you suggested. Only one I'm not completely sure about is Remand over Mana Leak, I think it's an improvement but I'm going to buy the Mana Leaks just in case.
Slipknot and EpicBroccoli: I wasn't really sure about splashing black but you were right that those cards were dead weight to me. In addition I removed Baneslayer Angel. I was stubborn about making this more Turbo Fog at first even though you provided a good argument for it but I thought about it again after Broccoli suggested Luminarch Ascension and added 4 copies of Holy Day. I actually feel a lot more confident going against a more aggressive deck now.
EDIT: I counted wrong my number of instants wrong so I was actually two cards short, added two Meddling Mage to remedy this and give me something else against control. Also, I sided Grand Abolisher thinking it would help in Control vs Control matches after I saw it in a Type 2 human deck.
I hope to remedy this situation, so this Christmas I am trying to assemble a deck closer to my original intent. Isochron Scepter's ability to repeatedly play low cost instants combined with powerful lockdown cards like Silence seemed to be a perfect fit. Before I order close to $100 worth of cards however I wanted to make sure I had a grasp of what I was doing. I guess that was more of a personal introduction than a deck one, moving along here is the decklist.
Note: All of my 'playtesting' is on mtgdeckbuilder.net where I use their playtest feature with my deck and one of the top rated decks at the same time. This of course is sub-optimal because I know the opponent's deck and more importantly I'm playing myself. Onto the cards.
Baneslayer Angel: This is supposed to be my finisher. Honestly I find its cost too high, usually to keep playing silence every turn I'll win with Lightning Helix on a stick instead
Silence: I love opening the game with this card. First card to go on a stick in most situations. Dawn Charm: This is a really versatile card, another high choice to go on a stick just because of its utility. Unless the playing field is covered in creatures though I'll choose silence first. Muddle the Mixture: This is one of my favorite counterspells, but in this deck I rarely use it as such. It can transmutate for a few important cards. Most importantly Isochron Scepters. Lightning Helix: This was originally a UW deck, and I even thought of removing this card to stabalize my mana base. Seeing as I almost never have trouble getting the right colors though I want to hang onto this because this card helps me fight off more aggressive teams early game and is usually my win condition. Usually my second spell to go on a stick assuming my first establishes a lot of control (like silence) Raise the Alarm: This is a card I haven't seen in any of the scepter decks I've looked at. My thought is that it will give me blockers early game (maybe even beaters) if I draw it so I don't have to be so reactionary, but also it could go on a stick in a pinch. Preferably in place of Lightning Helix or Lightning Bolt but I can see situations that'd warrant playing it first. Lightning Bolt: Same as Lightning Helix really. I love the lower cost, it really helps me protect myself before I get a scepter. That being said I'd rather have Lightning Helix on a stick because it'll cost the same for doing more but I could just as easily win the game with a Lightning Bolt. Mana Leak: This is my favorite counterspell to use by far. Its cost is great because I don't always have two blue mana. Fabricate: Helps me find a scepter, I used to have more but generally I get the two I need quickly enough. Maybe I could use it to find a different artifact if I find one to use besides Voltaic Key, I won't use fabricate to look for that. Angel's Grace: Great in a pinch, could go on a scepter but it's really my third choice to be my first scepter. Boomerang: Combined with Silence this could be a permenant removal spell. Early game it's nice to bounce things I don't want to see, but typically I don't use it much. Maybe I'm using it wrong, I know it's a good card. Isochron Scepter: This is the centerpiece of this deck, I explain scepter strategies in the other cards but generally white control spells get my first scepter and my burn spells get the second one. I haven't given a blue spell a scepter yet but hypothetically I could see Boomerang being a good one. Voltaic Key: When I have extra mana it's nice to play one of my scepters twice. I usually don't play silence on my turn though but make sure to play it the beginning of my opponent's team, so assuming I have a Key and two Scepters already on the field I would need 7 mana to make this happen and by that point I feel like I've already won or lost the game. I like this card but it might be a weak link.
Cards I cut Tezzeret the Seeker- His artifact effects were cool and helped my wins be a little flashier but honestly if the game got to a point where I could summon him then I already won, he was dead weight. Preordain: I didn't know this card was banned, good thing I caught that before I posted.
Sideboard
I'm not going to explain every card but I don't know what to do about my sideboard. I've never played real modern games so my knowledge of the metagame is limited. All of the cards are ones I wanted in my main deck but couldn't fit with the exception of Meddling Mage. My intent with them is to play it in my second or third games if I notice a particular card being vital to their strategy.
By saying "I may be wrong," you're just telling everybody to ignore you. If you're sure of the answer, answer confidently. If you're not sure, leave the question for someone who is sure. It's okay to be wrong, but being wishy-washy doesn't help anybody.
And for the record, your post is entirely correct.
3 Soul's Attendant
3 Doomed Traveler
4 Painter's Servant
4 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
1 Divinity of Pride
4 Twilight Drover
3 Auriok Champion
4 Path to Exile
4 Spectral Procession
2 Elspeth Tirel
2 Circle of Protection: Black
3 Lightning Greaves
10 Plains
5 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
4 Fetid Heath
Tesya, Orzhov Scion combined with Painter's Servant in a white deck can be used for infinite removal when my creatures are painted black, ideally the source would be something like Spectral Procession. Combined with cards like Soul's Attendant this could generate infinite life too. The big thing however is staying alive until I can set this up. In testing against a Zoo deck on mtgdeckbuilder (not ideal, I had to play both sides) I noticed my star would frequently be Twilight Drover who, provided enough mana, could chump block my spirit tokens and replace every one with a net gain of +1/+1 counters.
This is nowhere near final, I found Elspeth Tirel relatively useless as she came into play so late. Likewise Circle of Protection: Black seemed to not come into play when I'd have my Painter. These are probably very off-base however, more likely is that these cards are weak against Zoo. A card I intend to try soon is Wall of Omens.
So with that all being said does anybody have anything to say on the viability of a deck like this? On our favorite scarecrow's other Modern uses?
(My deck is an example, not the topic. Feel free to share completely different ideas)
That took me a little bit to get, but that's a cool little combo. Sadly I doubt I'll use it, I didn't want to splash black on this for a while and now I think I'm going to leave this deck in its current state- an Erayo deck I saw somewhere has stolen my heart. Thanks for the idea though, I am buying those cards because there's a good chance I'll go back to that.
@Slipknot: :/ is my thought exactly
It isn't just magic, I'm the equivalent of this in every other game I play that could be played competitively. I don't want to purposely lower my chances of winning but I don't feel the same pride if I can't make something my own. Pragmatism is certainly important because I never play with the intent to lose but I hate mirrors.
Also I feel this is important because it's why I'm a Spike, it's a good read: Sirlin's "Playing to Win"
From a card design perspective: I really like the lands not being reprinted because I appreciate all of the cool creative things they can do with lands that generate multiple colors like the shocklands. That aside I feel like multi-color lands without restrictions make it too easy to produce mana in 4 or 5 color decks where I feel such freedom should cost them a little.
On the restricted list in general though I think it needs to go. Not immediately but I feel eventually they should announce that after some period of time they will begin reprinting them. It should be a while's notice, lets say 3-5 years, so cards don't lose their value immediately and the small community of vintage/legacy won't be up in arms. It'd be nice for our most broad eternal meta to be approachable, it seems like there's just so much that can be done with a lot of the 571 cards they're refusing to print.
2 Meddling Mage
Instants(30)
4 Silence
4 Angelsong
4 Holy Day
4 Muddle the Mixture
3 Lightning Helix
3 Magma Jet
3 Remand
3 Into the Roil
2 Fabricate
4 Isochron Scepter
Enchantments(3)
3 Luminarch Ascension
Lands(21)
7 Island
5 Plains
3 Mountain
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Path to Exile
3 Telling Time
3 Day of Judgment
3 Grand Abolisher
2 Meddling Mage
Ronyx: I didn't add Telling Time except to my sideboard but I made all the replacements you suggested. Only one I'm not completely sure about is Remand over Mana Leak, I think it's an improvement but I'm going to buy the Mana Leaks just in case.
Slipknot and EpicBroccoli: I wasn't really sure about splashing black but you were right that those cards were dead weight to me. In addition I removed Baneslayer Angel. I was stubborn about making this more Turbo Fog at first even though you provided a good argument for it but I thought about it again after Broccoli suggested Luminarch Ascension and added 4 copies of Holy Day. I actually feel a lot more confident going against a more aggressive deck now.
EDIT: I counted wrong my number of instants wrong so I was actually two cards short, added two Meddling Mage to remedy this and give me something else against control. Also, I sided Grand Abolisher thinking it would help in Control vs Control matches after I saw it in a Type 2 human deck.
2 Baneslayer Angel
Instants(31)
4 Silence
4 Dawn Charm
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Lightning Helix
3 Raise the Alarm
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Fabricate
2 Angel's Grace
2 Boomerang
4 Isochron Scepter
2 Voltaic Key
Lands(21)
7 Island
5 Plains
3 Mountain
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Condemn
2 Sculpting Steel
2 Day of Judgment
2 Call to Mind
2 Meddling Mage
2 Boomerang
2 Peer Through Depths
Note: All of my 'playtesting' is on mtgdeckbuilder.net where I use their playtest feature with my deck and one of the top rated decks at the same time. This of course is sub-optimal because I know the opponent's deck and more importantly I'm playing myself. Onto the cards.
Baneslayer Angel: This is supposed to be my finisher. Honestly I find its cost too high, usually to keep playing silence every turn I'll win with Lightning Helix on a stick instead
Silence: I love opening the game with this card. First card to go on a stick in most situations.
Dawn Charm: This is a really versatile card, another high choice to go on a stick just because of its utility. Unless the playing field is covered in creatures though I'll choose silence first.
Muddle the Mixture: This is one of my favorite counterspells, but in this deck I rarely use it as such. It can transmutate for a few important cards. Most importantly Isochron Scepters.
Lightning Helix: This was originally a UW deck, and I even thought of removing this card to stabalize my mana base. Seeing as I almost never have trouble getting the right colors though I want to hang onto this because this card helps me fight off more aggressive teams early game and is usually my win condition. Usually my second spell to go on a stick assuming my first establishes a lot of control (like silence)
Raise the Alarm: This is a card I haven't seen in any of the scepter decks I've looked at. My thought is that it will give me blockers early game (maybe even beaters) if I draw it so I don't have to be so reactionary, but also it could go on a stick in a pinch. Preferably in place of Lightning Helix or Lightning Bolt but I can see situations that'd warrant playing it first.
Lightning Bolt: Same as Lightning Helix really. I love the lower cost, it really helps me protect myself before I get a scepter. That being said I'd rather have Lightning Helix on a stick because it'll cost the same for doing more but I could just as easily win the game with a Lightning Bolt.
Mana Leak: This is my favorite counterspell to use by far. Its cost is great because I don't always have two blue mana.
Fabricate: Helps me find a scepter, I used to have more but generally I get the two I need quickly enough. Maybe I could use it to find a different artifact if I find one to use besides Voltaic Key, I won't use fabricate to look for that.
Angel's Grace: Great in a pinch, could go on a scepter but it's really my third choice to be my first scepter.
Boomerang: Combined with Silence this could be a permenant removal spell. Early game it's nice to bounce things I don't want to see, but typically I don't use it much. Maybe I'm using it wrong, I know it's a good card.
Isochron Scepter: This is the centerpiece of this deck, I explain scepter strategies in the other cards but generally white control spells get my first scepter and my burn spells get the second one. I haven't given a blue spell a scepter yet but hypothetically I could see Boomerang being a good one.
Voltaic Key: When I have extra mana it's nice to play one of my scepters twice. I usually don't play silence on my turn though but make sure to play it the beginning of my opponent's team, so assuming I have a Key and two Scepters already on the field I would need 7 mana to make this happen and by that point I feel like I've already won or lost the game. I like this card but it might be a weak link.
Cards I cut
Tezzeret the Seeker- His artifact effects were cool and helped my wins be a little flashier but honestly if the game got to a point where I could summon him then I already won, he was dead weight.
Preordain: I didn't know this card was banned, good thing I caught that before I posted.
Sideboard
I'm not going to explain every card but I don't know what to do about my sideboard. I've never played real modern games so my knowledge of the metagame is limited. All of the cards are ones I wanted in my main deck but couldn't fit with the exception of Meddling Mage. My intent with them is to play it in my second or third games if I notice a particular card being vital to their strategy.
So finally I ask, any thoughts for improvement?