I picked up the deck a month ago or so, and so far I must say that I'm really unimpressed with it. Granted that when you open with T1 IoK, T2 Goyf into T3 lili usually that's enough... but even that sometimes won't be enough.
Now, I understand that this is a deck that requires a lot of time to learn it, but I can't help but feel that it suffers greatly from drawing the wrong half of the deck.
My LGS meta is... well, one of each. Literally. Maybe Jund is not good in such a scenario? Maybe is my list? Or more likely is the pilot, aka me.
At first glance I would say that the mana base needs some work. Other than that, would it work as a starting point for a midrange BUG deck? If not, what should be replaced?
Thank you guys for your replies, appreciate it! My LGS meta is... well, literally one of each (sometimes 2 copies of Burn, Affinity, Tron). It's quite hard to make a proper metagame call.
I haven't had any success with Jund so far (got paired against Bogles, Scapeshift, and some other roughs matchups) lately, so I was considering switching to Abzan and see how it goes. Otherwise, I'll go back to Storm hahah
In the current metagame, why should I switch from Jund to Abzan? What do I gain? What do I lose?
Without any experience with Abzan, I guess that it may have a slightly better Tron matchup (if you run Paths), a little bit more grindier (Souls), but with less reach and efficient removal (no K-Command / Terminate). Perhaps the question I should be asking is: is Souls better than BBE?
I went 3/2, and while I'm pretty sure that I made some mistakes, I don't recall any single one that cost me a game.
First round, GW Tokens:
I never played against this deck before and wasn't quite sure what to expect. First game I discarded and killed most of his creature generators, but two topdecked Advent of the Wurm seal the deal for him. Second game I had removal and creatures on my opening hand. I cast IoK and Thoughtseize to clear the way for my Goyf, but he drew a Pacifism. I clean the board with Damnation, cast a second Goyf, which gets exiled with an Oblivion Ring. Two turns later got beaten by a 4/4 and a 6/6 vigilant tokens. I felt that he had too much value, and it was hard to have an answer to every single token he made.
0-1
Second round, Humans:
The first game was pretty even, I have removal for his creatures, but I couldn't find a finisher on time. After a few turns, he manages to seal the deal with two Thalia's Lieutenant and a Mantis Rider.
The second game was awful: I IoK him on turn one, but a topdecked Thalia plus all my four taplands in my hand slow me too much and I got killed by a swarm of little guys.
0-2
Third round, Mono White Puresteel:
Since I was already out of the top4, I played just for fun. He was a new player, with a somewhat budget deck. He made a few mistakes, I tried to help and advice him as much as I could. Eventually, Jund did Jund things and killed him quite quickly with oversized Goyfs the two games. I didn't allow the Puresteel Paladin to survive a single turn, and that was pretty much about it.
1-2
Fourth round, Infect:
I win the die roll and open with IoK: I saw one forest, one Noble Hierarch, one Blighted Agent, and a bunch of pump spells. I took the infect creature (since my opener removal was a Lili and a K-Command). A Bob on turn two net me all the removal I needed, and I seal the deal quite quickly.
Second game was more or less the game, but I had to fight over two Spellskite and a Shapers' Sanctuary. I had to remind my opponent of his Sanctuary trigger the whole game, as he kept forgeting about it.
2-2
Fifth round, Slivers!
This was a fun match. I was very tired by now (it was late, I had woken up really early), and I don't recall the details. All I recall is that first game he got me down to two, while being at two life with a regenerating wall of blockers, and I topdeck a K-Command. Game two I drew lands for seven turns, literally a land per turn for seven turns. Game three, I lived the dream: BBE into Lili, followed by BBE into Lili the last Hope. That was too much for him.
3/2
Overall the deck felt ok. Not impressive, not bad, just ok. I'm considering cutting one Bob, as I learned that is not a card that I want to see in multiples.
I just went back and watched the entire league of Logan Nettles' (Jaberwocki) 5-0 league matches and he was flooding on lands in quite a few of the games and looting just fixed his draws. He was able to see a lot more cards and find the specific answers to win the games.
The first list is a rock list which was played by Sol Malka at the last GP. It looks particularly weird, but Sol as the creator of Rock always runs well with his own style and card choices..
I swear that I saw Bolts in there, totally my bad! Thanks for pointing that out.
Hi there. I've been away from the game for a while, and I noticed that there is a trend to move away from BBE and even Bob sometimes as well. I just noticed these two Jund-ish list on today's league results:
The first looks a bit more like a traditional Jund with some modifications, the second list is more like a Jund version Mardu Pyromancer. Is this the direction we are heading now? I will read the last few pages to caught up to speed, but I would love your insight on these two list, that at least for me, are a novelty.
I may change my main to something similar to that, since I just learned that the last Goyf I bought is a counterfeit. The seller is taking it back and reimbursing me for the full amount, but now I have only 3... maybe time to try Grim Flayer!
I believe these 60 are an exact copy of Caleb's (here is his blog, must read for Storm players).
The flex slots is from where most of the customization is made. I would argue that you want at least 2 Remand-like effects, 2 cantrip effects, and maybe a catch-it-all. Some people run the full suite of Remand, a singleton Empty the Warrens, Lightning Bolt, even Blood Moon.
You don't have to have snow-covered lands, you can do just fine with basics.
The post above yours explains greatly why some sideboard cards are being used currently.
@SchofieldSays: Indeed it was a great moment! I coming back to the game after 6 years. When I left Jund was a powerhouse and I never thought that someday I would be able to sleeve it up
@Jund Em In: Kalitas is at the moment an experiment. I like it for the reasons Delver mention
@FlyingDelver: I have two Spellbomb on the side, I'll start from there and see how it goes.
You also run 1 less Flayer, which helps to smooth out the draws, hence, less lands drawn in the late game.
Here is my list:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Dark Confidant
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Dreadbore
1 Fatal Push
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Choke
1 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Nihil Spellbomb
My LGS meta is... well, one of each. Literally. Maybe Jund is not good in such a scenario? Maybe is my list? Or more likely is the pilot, aka me.
Thanks!
I just stumbled upon this list (link), and thought that playing some BUG midrange may be fun:
3 Blooming Marsh
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Field of Ruin
2 Forest
2 Hissing Quagmire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Cast Down
2 Collective Brutality
1 Eternal Witness
4 Fatal Push
1 Hostage Taker
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Thoughtseize
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Damnation
2 Damping Sphere
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Natural State
1 Negate
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Yahenni's Expertise
Thanks!
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Marsh Flats
1 Godless Shrine
1 Forest
3 Blooming Marsh
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Siege Rhino
2 Grim Flayer
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Shambling Vent
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Temple Garden
2 Swamp
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Golgari Charm
2 Duress
3 Stony Silence
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Damnation
I'm not sure if I like the Flayers on this particular list.
I haven't had any success with Jund so far (got paired against Bogles, Scapeshift, and some other roughs matchups) lately, so I was considering switching to Abzan and see how it goes. Otherwise, I'll go back to Storm hahah
One more question, is Whispers of Emrakul too slow/unreliable?
Without any experience with Abzan, I guess that it may have a slightly better Tron matchup (if you run Paths), a little bit more grindier (Souls), but with less reach and efficient removal (no K-Command / Terminate). Perhaps the question I should be asking is: is Souls better than BBE?
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Dreadbore
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Terminate
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Choke
1 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Nihil Spellbomb
First round, GW Tokens:
I never played against this deck before and wasn't quite sure what to expect. First game I discarded and killed most of his creature generators, but two topdecked Advent of the Wurm seal the deal for him. Second game I had removal and creatures on my opening hand. I cast IoK and Thoughtseize to clear the way for my Goyf, but he drew a Pacifism. I clean the board with Damnation, cast a second Goyf, which gets exiled with an Oblivion Ring. Two turns later got beaten by a 4/4 and a 6/6 vigilant tokens. I felt that he had too much value, and it was hard to have an answer to every single token he made.
0-1
Second round, Humans:
The first game was pretty even, I have removal for his creatures, but I couldn't find a finisher on time. After a few turns, he manages to seal the deal with two Thalia's Lieutenant and a Mantis Rider.
The second game was awful: I IoK him on turn one, but a topdecked Thalia plus all my four taplands in my hand slow me too much and I got killed by a swarm of little guys.
0-2
Third round, Mono White Puresteel:
Since I was already out of the top4, I played just for fun. He was a new player, with a somewhat budget deck. He made a few mistakes, I tried to help and advice him as much as I could. Eventually, Jund did Jund things and killed him quite quickly with oversized Goyfs the two games. I didn't allow the Puresteel Paladin to survive a single turn, and that was pretty much about it.
1-2
Fourth round, Infect:
I win the die roll and open with IoK: I saw one forest, one Noble Hierarch, one Blighted Agent, and a bunch of pump spells. I took the infect creature (since my opener removal was a Lili and a K-Command). A Bob on turn two net me all the removal I needed, and I seal the deal quite quickly.
Second game was more or less the game, but I had to fight over two Spellskite and a Shapers' Sanctuary. I had to remind my opponent of his Sanctuary trigger the whole game, as he kept forgeting about it.
2-2
Fifth round, Slivers!
This was a fun match. I was very tired by now (it was late, I had woken up really early), and I don't recall the details. All I recall is that first game he got me down to two, while being at two life with a regenerating wall of blockers, and I topdeck a K-Command. Game two I drew lands for seven turns, literally a land per turn for seven turns. Game three, I lived the dream: BBE into Lili, followed by BBE into Lili the last Hope. That was too much for him.
3/2
Overall the deck felt ok. Not impressive, not bad, just ok. I'm considering cutting one Bob, as I learned that is not a card that I want to see in multiples.
Do you have a link? Thanks!
I swear that I saw Bolts in there, totally my bad! Thanks for pointing that out.
4 Dark Confidant
1 Eternal Witness
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Collective Brutality
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
1 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
2 Mishra's Bauble
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Forest
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Hissing Quagmire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Damnation
2 Duress
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Gaze of Granite
1 Golgari Charm
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Bedlam Reveler
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Faithless Looting
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Fatal Push
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Leyline of the Void
Thanks!
mathStorm! Here is my main deck just for reference:4 Shivan Reef
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Steam Vents
2 Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Mountain
Creatures:
4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
2 Goblin Electromancer
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
2 Past in Flames
3 Grapeshot
1 Noxious Revival
3 Opt
2 Remand
1 Repeal
1 Unsubstantiate
The flex slots is from where most of the customization is made. I would argue that you want at least 2 Remand-like effects, 2 cantrip effects, and maybe a catch-it-all. Some people run the full suite of Remand, a singleton Empty the Warrens, Lightning Bolt, even Blood Moon.
You don't have to have snow-covered lands, you can do just fine with basics.
The post above yours explains greatly why some sideboard cards are being used currently.
@SchofieldSays: Indeed it was a great moment! I coming back to the game after 6 years. When I left Jund was a powerhouse and I never thought that someday I would be able to sleeve it up
@Jund Em In: Kalitas is at the moment an experiment. I like it for the reasons Delver mention
@FlyingDelver: I have two Spellbomb on the side, I'll start from there and see how it goes.