I agree. enchantment draw less hate and again, we can go the b/g build with enchantment or the tooth and nail build that seal the game fast.
I'm liking this G/b splash for Doomwake Giant and Abrupt Decay suggestion. How would you play the enchantment build with Tooth&Nail, what finishers do you have in mind? I'm considering this core:
I think Doomwake Giant is insane against UR Delver if we get to resolve it.
Not sure if you are serious. You want to fight UR Delver that have a) good tempo b) counterspells c) ways to kill your accelerators with a ... 5 drop? Come on...
Also cant you just see that you have too many support cards? You have 25 SUPPORT CARDS out there. I think it isnt acceptable in a format we currently have...
I think if we would want to go Enchantress way, I would probably play straight GW enchantress: Enchantment mana accelerators + Sigil of empty Throne + lock pieces (something like Rest in Peace, Suppression Field, Ghotsly Prison, etc). You could fit Eidolon, Kruphix Insight allongside nykthos out there also.
In meta we are currently facing I am going to play Soul Sisters. However if I would have to play green, I would probably build something completely different than we have here.
Something like Bahra was playing last week: RGu midrange deck featuring efficient removal (anger, firesprout, bolt, fork bolt), and efficient, often lifegain creatures (goyf, courser, ooze, thragtusk, baloth, thrun) and blue splash for treasure cruise and some potential sideboard plan.
After testing deck we currently have, I found that card I hate most is Fork Bolt, which destroys what we have best, eg 1 drop acceleration, often multiple of those, alongsite potential burst ramp in form of Lotus Cobra. Without those cards we cant catch up. With a metagame shaping as we have right now, I dont think build we currently have can work. I can see maybe decks not using 1 drops (potentially only Utopia Sprawl as a bolt proof acceleration, alongside maybe other land enchantments).
In terms of 2-drops, I'm partial to both Elvish Visionary and even more so to Coiling Oracle. Oracle is unreal as it draws a card and ramps (if it's a land). Being able to play an additional land can be huge. Of course, if you're not already playing blue or elves (as you can take advantage of Cavern of Souls), the splashing may not be worth it. I can't imagine there is a better 2-drop than Strangleroot (Haste + Undying is CRAZY in a devotion deck) for the Stompy versions of this deck (I've built my own "Stompy" version and Strangleroot seems to be one of the All-stars)...and for the "Silver Bullet" version you end up with many more choices...I would think Scavenging Ooze would be good for you (as it is good graveyard hate and good hate for Treasure Cruise decks)...but there are a TON of 2-drops out there.
The card I think could be AMAZING in the Chord versions would be Wall of Roots. It has such powerful synergy with the deck. It is a great early blocker, can generate mana the turn it comes into play, and acts as 2-mana for a Chord. If I ran a Chord/Silver Bullet version of the deck; I would at least test Wall of Roots. I think actually the Purklefluff may have done this in the past; so he would be a good source of info on this front. Pedros did too I believe. He would know better as well. I'll look up some cards I've written down in the past and see if I can't think of something more useful for the Chord versions of the deck.
I think they go something like this:
[u]Elf Combo[/u]
Coiling Oracle
Elvish Visionary
[u]Stompy/u]
Strangleroot Geist
[u]Chord/Silver Bullet[/u]
Wall of Roots
Scavenging Ooze
I think you should also note Lotus Cobra (one of the more explosive ramp possible). After some testing I moved away from more 2 drops and focussed on playing more 1 drop accelerators - I noticed Purklefluff did similar.
How should we build our deck in a meta full of Jeskai Ascendancy, UR Delver and Burn? I think next two Europe Grand Prix in Modern will be full of those, so deck should be build accordingly.
Great to hear from you again Purklefluff! You've been such a big part of this thread.
I'm posting the Elf combo "recap"/"primer" now. I've been running/testing a new version that is a little more "combo" with the addition of bear umbra and mirror entity. I haven't posted much as I had only tested the deck about 100 games before last week and I didn't know what the new sideboard would look like (as the colors are now white blue and green).
I will be posting both versions of the deck; however the core idea and cards are exactly the same. The only real difference is the win-cons and board (and the fact that the bant version is a little faster on average while the Temur version is a little more "midrange").
Anywho, posting it now; and can't wait to talk about everyone's testing/playing results!
You have promissed us before with your experience, unravel it please this time for sure!
Any thoughts about PM I send you?
To all.
I am looking for a deck to GP Madrid/Mediolan (not sure which one I will go to), not completely sure of which version of green devotion (if this deck) I should take. Busy with work I just started, so not really lots of time to play, however I am still reading and answering if I found something to point out. Help me out for GP plz
Lantern what do you think about Doran + Mardu Ascendancy Zoo?
At a first glance it might be just a worse zoo. However being able to threaten "combo" kill (doran + ascendancy + any guy can get them down) might be slightly better than rampager.
I tested Jund Devotion (mono green combo maindeck, thoughtseizes, decays, bloodmoons, slaughter pacts, creeping corosion and slaughter games sb) for a 2-2 finish in my monday modern night.
Cant say I love this BTE. I didnt have any imbalanced turn 2-3 hoofs or genesis waves, I cant remember a game when I had both BTE and Nykthos. I however had some successful waves for 4-6, even had one for 23.
Lost vs UWR (won game 1..., lost games 2 and 3 when in 2nd I bloodmooned him and he topdecked 1of island and staticastered/remanded me to death and in 3rd I thoughtseized his command and snapcaster leaving him with 2 bolts, so he just burne me to death (topdecked 2 bolts and warleaders helix...)).
Won vs Infect (decays and slaughter games were really good here) to keep me alive and I closed the game with genesis wave for 23.
Lost vs Affinity (won game 1..., lost games 2 and 3. Didnt find any of my 3 Creeping Corosions both games, and I didnt win game 3 because I sideboarded Craterhoof and couldnt Command and win ;/ Every game he had 4-5 permanents turn 1, even game he mulliganed to 5. Decays and Slaughter Pacts were really good here).
Won vs Twin (lost game 1, won games 2 and 3 on a back of slaughter pact, decay and thoughtseizes).
Also played like 10 game 1s vs Melira Pod. Recored was 5-5 as the player on a play won every time. My opponent every game had mana dork on turn 1 (running only 7 of those, whereas I was running 12 and missed them 4 times...) and Pod turn 2 in 5 games, turn 3 in 3 games.
I think red is given because of alternative win condition in Kessig Wolf Run. It is too strong in this deck to not run it, and I would never jump into 4 colors - I tried it and wasnt impressed ;/
I would also prefer not to run chord in jund, as most of important 1 offs are white. You can find some (Spellskite, Scavenging Ooze, Reclamation Sage, Ruric Thar, ect) that are quite awsome, however you cant find answers to everything.
As a payout spells I would probably dive into Genesis Waves/Primal Commands/Genesis Hydras.
Also as I would probably run 3-4 Bloodmoons between SB/MD I was thinking about swamp in a sb. It can be fetched with Verdant Catacombs, you wouldnt loose 5 life with thoughtseize, plays around your own blood moon.
I think I would play Jund if I were playing full Genesis Wave build. Why? Lets see what black gives us:
Slaughter Pact - awsome way to kill crucial threat, hate-bear or bird, way to defend against twin/pod combo.
Thoughtseize - excelent way to protect your combo or interrupt their.
Slaughter Games - want to beat combo with only 1 wincon? This card beats them hard.
Disfigure, Dark Blast - cheap 1 mana anwers to delver decks. Dark blast is even recurable.
Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse - have a problem with strange permanent? Just get rid of it.
I am not talking about playing all those cards in md. However it is clean way of beating bad matchups - combo and delver. We should concentrate and play all in combo game 1 (potential BTE all in), and after board you can change for more "midrange" ROCK style deck if needed, that can win with card advantage from Eternal Witness, Command, Wistful Selkie, etc.
Thoughts?
BTW Purklefluff - I missed yesterdays daily, however played some games in 2 man queues. Paired against Junk, Jund, BW and Pod. Bonefire was awsome, Bloodmoons were awsome, Magus of the Moon was awsome. Witness getting back bonfire killing 2 confidants was awsome. Lingering souls werent a problem. Junk and pod died after I resolved magus / moon vs junk.
Would you guys play Noble Hierarch over Birds of Paradise if you have access for them? Doesnt fix Red mana, however fixes red which is more important imo.
It doesnt have build in evasion, however exalted is also quite powerful...
i've learnt some things. you may not like them, but they've changed the way i play the deck.
1) bonfire of the damned, uncountered by your opponent, is nearly always better than genesis wave, for the same mana. this comparison does break down dependant on matchup, but all of the decks that wave is genuinely good against - bonfire is better. for me, that's enough to drop my last genesis wave (long may she rest in peace) off the deck entirely and run 2 maindeck bonfires. MAN i am psyched about how great this spell has been in testing.
2) goodbye chameleon colossus maindeck. hello maindeck magus of the moon! the card is nuts. hands in the air. no two ways about it. yeah sure it eats a bolt like an angry kitten through wet paper, but honestly, it shuts down every deck not running bolt and sometimes decks with bolt, when they fail to draw it (or blow it too early on your arbor elf or whatever).
three cards. doesn't sound like much but WOW. three cards makes a difference. the deck plays nasty. it's unpredictable, can explode in a turn from almost zero board presence (through playing garruk then untapping) and it can play the gamut all the way from control to aggro depending on how you decide to run your creature-fetching spells. bonfire is even more bonkers than it ever was in standard in this deck and i honestly don't know why it took me this long to come round to using it.
here's my decklist right this moment, fresh from crushing some Jund (4-0), splinter twin (3-1) and RG Tron (surprisingly 3-1).
firstly - i paid very careful attention to the mana requirements of cards and how it all fitted together. i've got my strategy down pretty well as it stands. utopia sprawl usually names white or red, depending on whether i've drawn a shockland, or perhaps a fetch in order to grab a shockland. if i intend to go for a magus, i'll name white on the sprawl. i rarely need to choose green because between all the basic forests and untapping effects, i never need extra green. the only spell with GGG in the cost is chord of calling, and my creatures can "help me cast it" so it's fine. birds of paradise are obviously brilliant here as well. i have found the mana for this deck to be both consistent and forgiving. it's a clean deck to play with a nice strategy for getting the colours we need.
i'm more happy with where the deck's at now than i've ever been. bonfire has given the deck such heavy hitting game against creature strategies and ways to turn games around like never before. If playing at big tournaments this summer during modern season has taught me anything, it's that Modern isn't the crazy "turn 4 format" everyone likes to say it is. games go grindy, and the decks you routinely see at the top tables have ways to ensure grindy games go in their favour, through massive card advantage and high-quality topdecks (look at the success of jund/junk recently). by giving us tools like magus and bonfire, we up our game significantly in the face of terrifying grind-tacular decks which rule the format.
against combo we have powerful tools. boil, salt, blood moon all punish their greedy manabases; 3 paths in the 75 help against splinter twin. linvala and thrun both help against twin variants and uwr control (which runs resto and sometimes kiki jiki).
against affinity, the post-board games become laughable if we get a chance to use our sideboard tech early. turn 3 chord out kataki has been a pretty strong play and affinity doesn't usually expect it. game 1 magus does some nice work, paths are there and of course bonfire can turn games into the long battle you need to out-advantage the fragile affinity decks. courser also does heavy work here gaining life, aiding consistency and blocking early dorks.
against infect and hexproof, the extra 2 bonfires do some hard work. path to exile is always there and we have blockers-du-jour in the deck. the only guy i'm genuinely scared about is the unblockable one. yeesh that guy is harsh. ghost quarter and magus deals with the manlands nicely.
against tron, bonfire gives an interesting way to simultaneously kill a karn as well as a wurmcoil. it's not graceful, but it's a pretty big swing all the same. i like that it at least has enough versatility to not lose relevance in the harder matchups. magus obviously does heavy work here, although their likely 4 maindeck pyroclasms can make short work of him. still, it can give time. and usuall a couple of turns is all we need to win the game. magus gives the potential to effectively allow us to have an unimpeded turn of ramp/disruption. following a magus with a primal command is definitely the ideal scenario, but games are scrappy and in reality you take any advantage you can get. if left to its own devices (without having to blow a 'clasm or react to your plays) Tron will crush us. it's more consistent and despite our nicely consistent overrun/craterhoof strategy, it has a bigger end-game and can get there surprisingly quickly following an early karn. this deck is to be feared, and it's tricky to get traction against them if they have the turn 2 or 3 pyroclasm for your mana dorks. thankfully, utopia sprawl is great here, and ghost quarter does nice things too. sowing salt from the sideboard is a lifesaver, and i'd like to up the count to 2, if it wasn't for the RR in the casting cost. time and testing may prove that it's actually worth it, seeing as salt also hoses scapeshift royally. when i was playing shift, that was the card i was most scared of. thankfully i never saw it.
i've dropped my singleton beast within in favour of a second bonfire, and i may use one (or both) of the flex slots in my sideboard to enable me to deal with nasties like Karn. but this is tricky. it might be better to have a card like phyrexian revoker in there as a chord target. you know - instant speed response to their turn-3 karn, revoker naming karn. it's not bulletproof, obviously. revoker dies to everything except go for the throat. but for disrupting your opponent for a turn or two (to enable enough ramp to win the game) i think it's got potential. it certainly deals with planeswalkers nicely. hits pod pretty hard too. i'll test it in the SB.
here we have a powerful, well-rounded deck with the tools to face a tough metagame. i've changed my position now from "i would happily take this to a tournament" to "i would recommend this for a tournament".
play on, green mages.
(btw i hard cast elesh norn 4 times today and won every game. sick plays).
Really like how you evolved your decklist. I remember how hard was to force everyone here to try something new and stop playing and going all in with Genesis Wave. I also think that all the choices you are talking about are because we PLAYTEST AND SHARE RESULTS. 1 person can't tweek and make a deck. However 10 can do it.
With 2 Boils, 2 Blood Moons and Sowing Salt you dont have problems vs control right? That is why you cut Summoners Traps (or you just didnt like them?) for Thrun?
I see you still play Spellskite maindeck. Explain yourself, you really think it has a place MD? Isnt something like Scavenging Ooze (which I cant even find in a sideboard, might not be correct) more versatile?
I would probably play Creeping Corosion over Stony Silence if it would be my 1 off sideboard hate vs artifacts. Or even Fracturing Gust - it would also work well vs Boogles.
How do you like Ghost Quarter? I played with it however wasnt always sure if Tectonic Edge wasnt better. It doesnt help vs scapeshift/control, however it helps vs Tron...
I also saw that you completely cut Reclamation sage and decided to go with Quasali Pridemate. Cant say it isnt correct, it is just different. They both cost same mana. One is better vs twin as it can sit on battlefield so they have to play around it (similar with pod). Other leave body after is used. Thoughts on this?
I still wouldnt feel safe going to tournament with only 3 Path to Exiles - you still see delver or twin.
I played an event last night and went 3-1, and have made several changes to my list. I'll post a report later and analysis.
@Curdbros: I've noticed the same weakness vs. Flyers. Canopy Claws is something I've strongly considered, and works well with Genesis Hydra. I've also considered Silklash Spider and Cloudthresher, but for now still run the single Firespout in the board. I'm seriously considering adding in a few Pyroclasm into the board seeing how flying token generators like Lingering Souls and especially Spiritual Procession are very good against us.
@Pedros: Polukranos is excellent in that spot, but I feel like we need more than just that to hedge our bets against things like that.
Super busy week here, I'll try to post more later on time permitting.
Better to use what we already have in a sideboard thou ;P Obviously Spider is much better.
This does make me wish for a way to deal with multiple Flyers. This deck shows how many playable efficient flyers are in white alone (this isn't including delver, v.clique, lingering souls, stormbreath, etc.). Between Flickerwisp, Restoration Angel, Linvala, and Keeper of Silence; they quickly have 3-6 damage in the air. While Combust is great; I really would like to have an option to take care of multiple Flyers at once. A long while back, I remember playing Silklash Spider and absolutely loving it; so I may try it again here. I'll be looking into sideboard flyer hate immediately!
Did you try out Polukranos vs them? What I found he quite easilyis clearing all X/1 flyers, plus is a huge ground beast easily overwhelming their Brimaz/Tokens.
2. Mistcutter Hydra - I use Cavern of Souls to great success; but it couldn't hurt to have another strong card against Blue. Especially one with haste and Pro-Blue.
I feel like Gaea's Revenge might be slightly better. Can't be countered, haste, and better protection IMO (can be blocked by blue creatures, but there arent a lot of them).
4. Silklash Spider - This is a GREAT flying hater; and can even be great against twin (even 100 flyers die because he does the same amount of damage to all flyers. I will be testing this immediately.
5. Root Maze - I honestly think this may be something that could help in my tougher match ups. It would probably require me to remove my Misty Rainforests and play more duals; but I have Arbor Elf, Nissa, and Garruk untapping things. Would be interesting to see how this effects control match ups (especially UWR that runs a good amount of fetches).
I played with it a little bit and was really impressed, however you are right about you need to run almost non-fetch version. It would however make your small blue and red splash awkward.
3. Bonfire of the Damned - Ridiculously powerful spell that would also deal with flyers...not sure how well I'd like it given all of the card draw in the deck (as this reduces the amount of times it would be cast at "Miracle" cost), but a neat idea for at minimum the sideboard.
This card is really powerful, it is sure. It also can let us win vs Merfolks.
I didnt see any results vs Merfolks, Scapeshift, Twin or Tron. Merfolks and Twin seems hard, while Tron or Scapeshift seems favourable?
Not sure if you are serious. You want to fight UR Delver that have a) good tempo b) counterspells c) ways to kill your accelerators with a ... 5 drop? Come on...
Also cant you just see that you have too many support cards? You have 25 SUPPORT CARDS out there. I think it isnt acceptable in a format we currently have...
I think if we would want to go Enchantress way, I would probably play straight GW enchantress: Enchantment mana accelerators + Sigil of empty Throne + lock pieces (something like Rest in Peace, Suppression Field, Ghotsly Prison, etc). You could fit Eidolon, Kruphix Insight allongside nykthos out there also.
Something like Bahra was playing last week: RGu midrange deck featuring efficient removal (anger, firesprout, bolt, fork bolt), and efficient, often lifegain creatures (goyf, courser, ooze, thragtusk, baloth, thrun) and blue splash for treasure cruise and some potential sideboard plan.
After testing deck we currently have, I found that card I hate most is Fork Bolt, which destroys what we have best, eg 1 drop acceleration, often multiple of those, alongsite potential burst ramp in form of Lotus Cobra. Without those cards we cant catch up. With a metagame shaping as we have right now, I dont think build we currently have can work. I can see maybe decks not using 1 drops (potentially only Utopia Sprawl as a bolt proof acceleration, alongside maybe other land enchantments).
I think you should also note Lotus Cobra (one of the more explosive ramp possible). After some testing I moved away from more 2 drops and focussed on playing more 1 drop accelerators - I noticed Purklefluff did similar.
You have promissed us before with your experience, unravel it please this time for sure!
Any thoughts about PM I send you?
To all.
I am looking for a deck to GP Madrid/Mediolan (not sure which one I will go to), not completely sure of which version of green devotion (if this deck) I should take. Busy with work I just started, so not really lots of time to play, however I am still reading and answering if I found something to point out. Help me out for GP plz
http://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/2ie2l0/modern_thoughts_on_mono_green_devotion/
At a first glance it might be just a worse zoo. However being able to threaten "combo" kill (doran + ascendancy + any guy can get them down) might be slightly better than rampager.
Cant say I love this BTE. I didnt have any imbalanced turn 2-3 hoofs or genesis waves, I cant remember a game when I had both BTE and Nykthos. I however had some successful waves for 4-6, even had one for 23.
Lost vs UWR (won game 1..., lost games 2 and 3 when in 2nd I bloodmooned him and he topdecked 1of island and staticastered/remanded me to death and in 3rd I thoughtseized his command and snapcaster leaving him with 2 bolts, so he just burne me to death (topdecked 2 bolts and warleaders helix...)).
Won vs Infect (decays and slaughter games were really good here) to keep me alive and I closed the game with genesis wave for 23.
Lost vs Affinity (won game 1..., lost games 2 and 3. Didnt find any of my 3 Creeping Corosions both games, and I didnt win game 3 because I sideboarded Craterhoof and couldnt Command and win ;/ Every game he had 4-5 permanents turn 1, even game he mulliganed to 5. Decays and Slaughter Pacts were really good here).
Won vs Twin (lost game 1, won games 2 and 3 on a back of slaughter pact, decay and thoughtseizes).
Also played like 10 game 1s vs Melira Pod. Recored was 5-5 as the player on a play won every time. My opponent every game had mana dork on turn 1 (running only 7 of those, whereas I was running 12 and missed them 4 times...) and Pod turn 2 in 5 games, turn 3 in 3 games.
I would also prefer not to run chord in jund, as most of important 1 offs are white. You can find some (Spellskite, Scavenging Ooze, Reclamation Sage, Ruric Thar, ect) that are quite awsome, however you cant find answers to everything.
As a payout spells I would probably dive into Genesis Waves/Primal Commands/Genesis Hydras.
Also as I would probably run 3-4 Bloodmoons between SB/MD I was thinking about swamp in a sb. It can be fetched with Verdant Catacombs, you wouldnt loose 5 life with thoughtseize, plays around your own blood moon.
List comming up soon.
Slaughter Pact - awsome way to kill crucial threat, hate-bear or bird, way to defend against twin/pod combo.
Thoughtseize - excelent way to protect your combo or interrupt their.
Slaughter Games - want to beat combo with only 1 wincon? This card beats them hard.
Disfigure, Dark Blast - cheap 1 mana anwers to delver decks. Dark blast is even recurable.
Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse - have a problem with strange permanent? Just get rid of it.
I am not talking about playing all those cards in md. However it is clean way of beating bad matchups - combo and delver. We should concentrate and play all in combo game 1 (potential BTE all in), and after board you can change for more "midrange" ROCK style deck if needed, that can win with card advantage from Eternal Witness, Command, Wistful Selkie, etc.
Thoughts?
BTW Purklefluff - I missed yesterdays daily, however played some games in 2 man queues. Paired against Junk, Jund, BW and Pod. Bonefire was awsome, Bloodmoons were awsome, Magus of the Moon was awsome. Witness getting back bonfire killing 2 confidants was awsome. Lingering souls werent a problem. Junk and pod died after I resolved magus / moon vs junk.
It doesnt have build in evasion, however exalted is also quite powerful...
Really like how you evolved your decklist. I remember how hard was to force everyone here to try something new and stop playing and going all in with Genesis Wave. I also think that all the choices you are talking about are because we PLAYTEST AND SHARE RESULTS. 1 person can't tweek and make a deck. However 10 can do it.
With 2 Boils, 2 Blood Moons and Sowing Salt you dont have problems vs control right? That is why you cut Summoners Traps (or you just didnt like them?) for Thrun?
I see you still play Spellskite maindeck. Explain yourself, you really think it has a place MD? Isnt something like Scavenging Ooze (which I cant even find in a sideboard, might not be correct) more versatile?
I would probably play Creeping Corosion over Stony Silence if it would be my 1 off sideboard hate vs artifacts. Or even Fracturing Gust - it would also work well vs Boogles.
How do you like Ghost Quarter? I played with it however wasnt always sure if Tectonic Edge wasnt better. It doesnt help vs scapeshift/control, however it helps vs Tron...
I also saw that you completely cut Reclamation sage and decided to go with Quasali Pridemate. Cant say it isnt correct, it is just different. They both cost same mana. One is better vs twin as it can sit on battlefield so they have to play around it (similar with pod). Other leave body after is used. Thoughts on this?
I still wouldnt feel safe going to tournament with only 3 Path to Exiles - you still see delver or twin.
Better to use what we already have in a sideboard thou ;P Obviously Spider is much better.
Did you try out Polukranos vs them? What I found he quite easilyis clearing all X/1 flyers, plus is a huge ground beast easily overwhelming their Brimaz/Tokens.
I feel like Gaea's Revenge might be slightly better. Can't be countered, haste, and better protection IMO (can be blocked by blue creatures, but there arent a lot of them).
I think he is much better choice than Cloudthresher and Arashi, the Sky Asunder, however also little bit slower.
I played with it a little bit and was really impressed, however you are right about you need to run almost non-fetch version. It would however make your small blue and red splash awkward.
This card is really powerful, it is sure. It also can let us win vs Merfolks.
I didnt see any results vs Merfolks, Scapeshift, Twin or Tron. Merfolks and Twin seems hard, while Tron or Scapeshift seems favourable?