Interesting thoughts from Maro's Q&A at #MtGLondon.
Modern Horizons was originally dubbed as 'Timespiral / Planar Chaos 2' in concept due to set complexity. It won't be an entry level set and has *a lot* of mechanics, but is a love letter to the Time Spiral block. #MTGModern
I know WAR just dropped, and it looks great, but MH1 can't get here soon enough.
Your test list is almost identical to mine in the main, except for two things. I added a fourth KGC and cut the fourth O-Stone out entirely (2 main, 1 SB). To compensate, I cut the fifth Forest for a copy of Blast Zone. I really like the additional copies of Forest and O-Stone though, so if three copies of KGC feels like enough, this is where I'll end up as well, with the single Blast Zone in the side. BZ as a tutorable sweeper that can recur with Crucible and hit Stony Silence seems too good to pass up.
The real experiment is of course the sideboard. Mine is similar to yours, but I have three Thragtusks and no Surgicals, with a single Spellskite to act as a lightning rod and defense instead of the fourth Claim. Claim does get a solid boost from the Lattice, though. Spyglass is much better than Pithing Needle for this build since you can see if the way is clear for a Lattice as well, so I like it in your build.
EDIT: Missed the Field of Ruin in the main; most people run Ghost Quarter there, myself included.
I definitely agree with the sentiment that KGC shouldn't sway anyone into playing cards like Liquidmetal Coating, and that the real value is on immediate impact cards that you can cast the same turn you grab them. Mycosynth Lattice is powerful enough when backed with multiple copies of KGC to warrant, though. There's no need to grab it first, but anytime an opponent doesn't have an answer, they risk getting locked out.
Bonus points that Lattice slightly helps our Stirrings (in casting it or finding anything in the deck...like the next card), and greatly helps any copies of Nature's Claim become powerhouses. Hitting another KGC turns off their mana and allows us to immediately plus on the Lattice to attack (or block) for six as well. I do think that the players gunning to lock opponents with the Karn/Lattice combo without paying enough attention will get wrecked, but I disagree that this is a kitchen table combo.
The way I see it, KGC is just another consistency tool to add to the deck; we shouldn't be cutting any copies of Karn Liberated for them. The fact that the new Karn can set up to stall so well with turn three Tron is great, and the fact that it's only four mana means it's more playable in the face of many common hate cards. Toolboxing, recurring (thanks to Relic), and multiple ways to lock opponents out of the game? This thing has a solid floor, and a very high ceiling.
Bonus points for incidental hate against Chalice, Ad Nauseam (thanks to Pentad Prism and Lotus Bloom), and of course any artifact-heavy deck. Maybe 8-Karn will catch on, haha.
EDIT: I think the new Karn is good enough against control decks together with what we already play that New Ugin (Newgin?) isn't even worth considering. It's a cool card with some nice abilities, but I don't think Gx Tron will make the most of them.
Matt Nass and LSV did a take on unban opinions for SFM, Twin, GSZ, Chrome Mox, and the artifact lands. Regardless of any other take, it still amazes me that people think
SFM would warp the format, even to homogenize the fair decks.
A minor side note: If your opponent does manage to off KCG while you have Lattice on the board, Nature's Claim is a one mana instant Vindicate.
If KGC ends up sticking, and you face it in the mirror, you can tap for colorless if you have no green sources in response to a Lattice casting. Once it lands, you can spend that mana to Claim it away.
If KGC becomes a mainstay, you can actually Claim their Karn and lock them under their own Lattice if you have a Karn of your own.
Good call! It's nice that Lattice still has some decent utility even if you don't have Karn to lock up their options thanks primarily to Claim. Keeping Lattice on the board while denying opposing Karns should definitely be the priority though.
KGC at the very least seems to be getting everyone to consider new and refreshing lines of play (and counter-play). I'm still skeptical, but I haven't tested with it either. Usually cards like this end up as bait (Conduit of Ruin, Planar Bridge), but this Karn seems like the best version of this sort of effect. I'll pick some of them up along with a Lattice and a Blast Zone to play around with once the set formally drops.
A minor side note: If your opponent does manage to off KCG while you have Lattice on the board, Nature's Claim is a one mana instant Vindicate.
If KGC ends up sticking, and you face it in the mirror, you can tap for colorless if you have no green sources in response to a Lattice casting. Once it lands, you can spend that mana to Claim it away.
We know the current color pie will be adhered to with Modern Horizons per Maro, so Sylvan Library should be out on that alone; paying life to draw cards is black, not green. Also, the additional burden of tracking cards which have already been drawn probably isn't something Wizards wants players and judges to worry about for competitive play.
As several others have stated, Mirri's Guile is balanced much better for Modern, plus the story flavor seems like something they'd want for MH1.
I hope there are some cool hybrid and colorless mana cards in this set. I think Stifle is a bit too good at stuffing early fetchlands, but imagine a cross between Bind (aka green Squelch) and Stifle for one and a U/G hybrid. Or hey, some slightly pushed cycles, like enemy color commands! Now those would keep the set sales strong.
One of the biggest problems in Modern is that decks often lack the tools to properly interact with the unfair linear decks of the format without going to their sideboards first. Rishadan Port is a powerful disruptive element that plays best in mono or two-colored fair decks. It breathes new life into Aether Vial, while creating tension with the crazy mana bases that Aether Vial decks play. It’s iconic, a flashy rare, and jawdropping.
The fact that Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin play well both with and against it is a nice plus too, as it limits how oppressive the Port can be. I'm primarily a Gx Tron player, and I'd still be happy to have Port in the format.
Dust Bowl would probably be okay as well, though it makes Tron (more) disgusting against anything trying to go long, at the very least.
Cabal Coffers and Rishadan Port to float the value as people jump on the two lands to brew for modern. Containment Priest literally needs a printing for modern to act as a hard counter to some strategies, Mother of Runes would help push edict effects up in value and probably boost Maelstrom pulse in cost. Also she'd make my legacy D&T viable in modern which would be happy days.
I'm right there with you on Coffers and Port; they would be great fits for Modern (powerful, but don't slot directly into top-tier decks), and the value would be great for them. Priest would be perfect, but I'm skeptical about anything that was in UMA getting reprinted again so soon. Mom's probably a little too risky though, and if Modern D&T is already getting Port, that's already a huge boon to the deck.
I find myself agreeing with the overwhelming majority of what he says here. I do think he slightly underrates how powerful Dust Bowl can be if the game goes long, but I definitely agree with his assessment that Wasteland has no chance, Dust Bowl is maybe possible, but Rishadan Port would be the best of the old mana denial lands. I think the cycling-related cards are more likely than not, and that people are slightly overrating Strix for Modern while underrating how warping Daze can be. Pretty much everything else he says is reasonable, and even my minor disagreements are a relative drop in the bucket against 50 cards. (Go work for Play Design, Jim!)
My only concern for many of the most requested reprints for Modern Horizons is that most of them have already been reprinted in the last year or so, especially the rares and mythics. Here's to hoping that doesn't affect them though; worst case, anything skipped over like Containment Priest or Vindicate could be easy plants for MH2.
Some thoughts on Modern Horizons, including breakdowns of the stream-spoiled cards, possible reprint includes, and of course long-term format implications. I think Horizons might slow the format's development to a crawl after an initial brewing renaissance of sorts; after all, there's no guarantee more products like this are released down the road. In fact, I'd say the odds of that happening (especially with any semblance of frequency) are very low.
Nice article! I particularly like your points about:
-Answers more like Damping Sphere than Wasteland
-Grindy midrange cards (would love to see Strix and Shardless in Modern)
-Tools that power up under-represented tribal synergies or deck archetypes
I would contend that Stifle and Daze in particular are too good when the person playing them is on the play, especially in decks that don't need the help in that department, like GDS and Izzet Phoenix. That said, the fact that we are about to get 250 new toys to play with is really exciting.
One thing I would like to point out is that many of the cards people are suggesting (myself included) as great reprint plants for Modern have already been reprinted in the last year or so, and I have the feeling Wizards will hold those cards back for the next go. Containment Priest, Pernicious Deed, Vindicate, TNN, Back to Basics, Temporal Manipulation, and Brightling immediately spring to mind. I think the commons and uncommons aren't under the same consideration, but that could also hurt the chances for StP and Pillage, at the very least.
I wonder how all of this might factor into the unbanning possiblity for SFM? With all of the excitement Modern will have from the (possible) new London Mulligan, Modern Horizons, and whatever toys we get from the planeswalker-centric War of the Spark, I can't imagine releasing SFM (or anything else) is high priority for Wizards for the foreseeable future (despite the fact that it could come off safely at any time).
One last thought...where are we going to get our needed legal reprints? I posted a guess in another thread about another supplemental set in the Nov-Dec time frame (similar to the Masters sets of the past two years, since Wizards will want that sweet end-of-year pre-holiday revenue), but it would still need some kind of twist for it to reprint those cards and not just be another Masters set.
Like many, I'm excited for the possibilities here. 250 new (to Modern) cards designed or chosen specifically for the format? Can't wait to see the full spoiler for this set.
Also like many, I'm blown away by no reprints of existing Modern cards in dire need of a supply injection; looks like they are banking at the novelty and equity of newer cards to drive the set sales (and they're probably right).
If I had to guess, my instinct is that another supplemental product will release in the Nov-Dec window that contains some number of choice reprints (but isn't an actual Masters set). Wizards knows that printing cards like the enemy fetches will make them money and players happy, plus they need to make up that end-of-year revenue occupied by Masters sets for the past two years.
Me...I'm just excited for old things and call-backs, and especially to not be envious of so many fun cards bypassing my favorite format for a change.
I mean, if it has enemy fetches and only costs $4 instead of $10 or more per pack, it will be a hit no matter what else is in it, right?
As many have pointed out, though, it's hard to imagine an innovation product focusing primarily on desired reprints of existing cards at lower price points. What else innovative besides direct-to-format cards would really excite Modern players specifically?
I know WAR just dropped, and it looks great, but MH1 can't get here soon enough.
Your test list is almost identical to mine in the main, except for two things. I added a fourth KGC and cut the fourth O-Stone out entirely (2 main, 1 SB). To compensate, I cut the fifth Forest for a copy of Blast Zone. I really like the additional copies of Forest and O-Stone though, so if three copies of KGC feels like enough, this is where I'll end up as well, with the single Blast Zone in the side. BZ as a tutorable sweeper that can recur with Crucible and hit Stony Silence seems too good to pass up.
The real experiment is of course the sideboard. Mine is similar to yours, but I have three Thragtusks and no Surgicals, with a single Spellskite to act as a lightning rod and defense instead of the fourth Claim. Claim does get a solid boost from the Lattice, though. Spyglass is much better than Pithing Needle for this build since you can see if the way is clear for a Lattice as well, so I like it in your build.
EDIT: Missed the Field of Ruin in the main; most people run Ghost Quarter there, myself included.
Bonus points that Lattice slightly helps our Stirrings (in casting it or finding anything in the deck...like the next card), and greatly helps any copies of Nature's Claim become powerhouses. Hitting another KGC turns off their mana and allows us to immediately plus on the Lattice to attack (or block) for six as well. I do think that the players gunning to lock opponents with the Karn/Lattice combo without paying enough attention will get wrecked, but I disagree that this is a kitchen table combo.
The way I see it, KGC is just another consistency tool to add to the deck; we shouldn't be cutting any copies of Karn Liberated for them. The fact that the new Karn can set up to stall so well with turn three Tron is great, and the fact that it's only four mana means it's more playable in the face of many common hate cards. Toolboxing, recurring (thanks to Relic), and multiple ways to lock opponents out of the game? This thing has a solid floor, and a very high ceiling.
Bonus points for incidental hate against Chalice, Ad Nauseam (thanks to Pentad Prism and Lotus Bloom), and of course any artifact-heavy deck. Maybe 8-Karn will catch on, haha.
EDIT: I think the new Karn is good enough against control decks together with what we already play that New Ugin (Newgin?) isn't even worth considering. It's a cool card with some nice abilities, but I don't think Gx Tron will make the most of them.
KGC at the very least seems to be getting everyone to consider new and refreshing lines of play (and counter-play). I'm still skeptical, but I haven't tested with it either. Usually cards like this end up as bait (Conduit of Ruin, Planar Bridge), but this Karn seems like the best version of this sort of effect. I'll pick some of them up along with a Lattice and a Blast Zone to play around with once the set formally drops.
If KGC ends up sticking, and you face it in the mirror, you can tap for colorless if you have no green sources in response to a Lattice casting. Once it lands, you can spend that mana to Claim it away.
As several others have stated, Mirri's Guile is balanced much better for Modern, plus the story flavor seems like something they'd want for MH1.
I hope there are some cool hybrid and colorless mana cards in this set. I think Stifle is a bit too good at stuffing early fetchlands, but imagine a cross between Bind (aka green Squelch) and Stifle for one and a U/G hybrid. Or hey, some slightly pushed cycles, like enemy color commands! Now those would keep the set sales strong.
The fact that Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin play well both with and against it is a nice plus too, as it limits how oppressive the Port can be. I'm primarily a Gx Tron player, and I'd still be happy to have Port in the format.
Dust Bowl would probably be okay as well, though it makes Tron (more) disgusting against anything trying to go long, at the very least.
I find myself agreeing with the overwhelming majority of what he says here. I do think he slightly underrates how powerful Dust Bowl can be if the game goes long, but I definitely agree with his assessment that Wasteland has no chance, Dust Bowl is maybe possible, but Rishadan Port would be the best of the old mana denial lands. I think the cycling-related cards are more likely than not, and that people are slightly overrating Strix for Modern while underrating how warping Daze can be. Pretty much everything else he says is reasonable, and even my minor disagreements are a relative drop in the bucket against 50 cards. (Go work for Play Design, Jim!)
My only concern for many of the most requested reprints for Modern Horizons is that most of them have already been reprinted in the last year or so, especially the rares and mythics. Here's to hoping that doesn't affect them though; worst case, anything skipped over like Containment Priest or Vindicate could be easy plants for MH2.
-Answers more like Damping Sphere than Wasteland
-Grindy midrange cards (would love to see Strix and Shardless in Modern)
-Tools that power up under-represented tribal synergies or deck archetypes
I would contend that Stifle and Daze in particular are too good when the person playing them is on the play, especially in decks that don't need the help in that department, like GDS and Izzet Phoenix. That said, the fact that we are about to get 250 new toys to play with is really exciting.
One thing I would like to point out is that many of the cards people are suggesting (myself included) as great reprint plants for Modern have already been reprinted in the last year or so, and I have the feeling Wizards will hold those cards back for the next go. Containment Priest, Pernicious Deed, Vindicate, TNN, Back to Basics, Temporal Manipulation, and Brightling immediately spring to mind. I think the commons and uncommons aren't under the same consideration, but that could also hurt the chances for StP and Pillage, at the very least.
I wonder how all of this might factor into the unbanning possiblity for SFM? With all of the excitement Modern will have from the (possible) new London Mulligan, Modern Horizons, and whatever toys we get from the planeswalker-centric War of the Spark, I can't imagine releasing SFM (or anything else) is high priority for Wizards for the foreseeable future (despite the fact that it could come off safely at any time).
One last thought...where are we going to get our needed legal reprints? I posted a guess in another thread about another supplemental set in the Nov-Dec time frame (similar to the Masters sets of the past two years, since Wizards will want that sweet end-of-year pre-holiday revenue), but it would still need some kind of twist for it to reprint those cards and not just be another Masters set.
Like many, I'm excited for the possibilities here. 250 new (to Modern) cards designed or chosen specifically for the format? Can't wait to see the full spoiler for this set.
Also like many, I'm blown away by no reprints of existing Modern cards in dire need of a supply injection; looks like they are banking at the novelty and equity of newer cards to drive the set sales (and they're probably right).
If I had to guess, my instinct is that another supplemental product will release in the Nov-Dec window that contains some number of choice reprints (but isn't an actual Masters set). Wizards knows that printing cards like the enemy fetches will make them money and players happy, plus they need to make up that end-of-year revenue occupied by Masters sets for the past two years.
Me...I'm just excited for old things and call-backs, and especially to not be envious of so many fun cards bypassing my favorite format for a change.
As many have pointed out, though, it's hard to imagine an innovation product focusing primarily on desired reprints of existing cards at lower price points. What else innovative besides direct-to-format cards would really excite Modern players specifically?