I'm not usually one to jump onto a bandwagon, but this looks somewhat playable.
It's quite playable. The 3 life part stings a bit, but it's instant speed and exiles. Would be nice if it hits lands but we know that's too powerful for modern-era WoTC. Very glad it's even this good.
It's also the Game Day Top 8 promo:
The 3 life definitely stings. Either potentially a sideboard card or we need a way to offset the life loss due to how much life we lose from our mana bases in modern.
I think it's still a 1 or 2 of in the mainboard, potentially with the 2nd copy in the sideboard. I think the upside of having access to that unconditional (aside from lands) removal at instant speed counters the downside of the 3 life. You won't want it in the burn matchup and likely not in the aggro matchups in general, but that's where you sideboard it out. Having access to it for Jund to deal with Liliana, or other midrange decks...it's just a catchall.
I'm not usually one to jump onto a bandwagon, but this looks somewhat playable.
It's quite playable. The 3 life part stings a bit, but it's instant speed and exiles. Would be nice if it hits lands but we know that's too powerful for modern-era WoTC. Very glad it's even this good.
If you're going to miss the land drop for that turn, playing it sorcery speed is even the right play in many circumstances.
I consider missing a land drop to be dire straits. But at that point I'm still better off casting it at the end of the opponents turn, unless they're tapped out and I'm expecting a counterspell or a skullcrack etc, then I window it on my turn if tapping out isn't going to be worse. Obviously sequencing is dependent completely on the game state but as often as possible I want to cast it at their end of turn.
Jace is stronger in the deck than Snapcaster, but Snapcaster isn't soft to dead removal and actually can clock a combo deck.
As far as mana efficiency goes, Jace is a monster, though. Not only do you get 2 activations over 3 turns, you don't have to pay the 1U kicker like with Snapcaster. That's an extra 2 cards when you want to flash back Revelation.
I'm not casting Rev on my own turn though, unless I'm in dire straits.
Here is the deal, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is being very hot in Standard right now and I happen to have a playset of that card so my question is, will Jace ever be a piece of Esper Control in Modern? I personally don't think so since Snapcaster Mage does the job a lot faster than Jace because the late has to flip to actually be relevant. I need to hear your thoughts about this because I'm about 2 feet away from selling Jaces and start getting the missing pieces of Modern Esper in order to complete it so let me know what you think.
Jace is useless for us IMO. Most lists only run 2, maybe 3 Snapcaster Mages. Aside from the board wipes and some sideboard cards (or Halos/Gideons that some people are running) the entirety of our deck is instant speed and we want to be casting spells on the opponents turn, Jace doesn't allow for this. He's also vulnerable to removal, and since we generally blank removal from the opponent we don't want to be turning it on. Sure, Snapcaster Mages turn it on but we're not playing them for the creature (although it can be incidentally valuable as a blocker or a clock).
I don't think Ashiok does a whole lot for us, but it's worth a test...I think it'd only really be viable as a sideboard card vs control maybe, and there I'd probably rather have Nephalia Drownyard.
All in all, I still love the deck and none of the matches felt like auto loss. I will definitely be playing this on Saturday at the pptq and probably slightly altering it. Splashing black for the sin collector and considering dropping linvala to the sb and running huntmaster mb.
This is exactly how I feel about the deck too, it just has so much game in every match that even from behind you can still win the game, or at least have the opportunity to. There's a lot of small interactions that can put you ahead as well and just a ton of versatility. I love what it offers.
I wouldn't cut Linvala, it's a great hedge vs Twin and it shuts Elves down hard as well. It's also just a decent card. It shuts Olivia down in Grixis and Jund. Sure, I side it out often enough in matches where it's just a 3/4 flyer (because there are more relevant cards to bring in) but it's absolutely a great bullet in the deck. I wouldn't want Huntmaster, it's just a winmore card IMO. There's nothing he really does on his own that other cards in the deck don't already offer you. Sure he can generate some value with Resto Angel, but most of the time you're getting 2 life and a pair of 2/2's for 4. He'll probably eat a bolt, a card that otherwise is fairly dead against the majority of your creature base. And we don't have the spells to necessarily continue flipping him back and forth. I do encourage you to test it for yourself, but I wouldn't want to trade Linvala for him, and after that I wouldn't want a 6th 4 drop as it is.
Was that the splash black for sin collector build or the one that also has defectors? Awesome report and that gives me plenty of hope for this Saturday. No worries Artvi.
It was for Sin Collectors. 1 main/1 side. I didn't play against control or Twin so it wasn't super relevant in my matchups, but I had played against Grixis Control at FNM on Friday and it was really good in that matchup. Especially since my opponent misplayed around it thinking it was a Tidehollow Sculler type effect instead of just straight exile (from memory, then he read the card after)
I took Hoogland's latest list to a PPTQ on Saturday and made Top 4, losing to Affinity (Game 1 I mulled to 4 before I saw any lands and it just was not happening from there, Game 2 I punted on keeping a 1lander with Stony Silence, didn't hit the land on T2 and then he thoughtseized it out of my hand right before I drew the land for T3. Should have mulled oh well).
Round 1 vs UR Storm W 2-0
Opponent got a game loss for deck registration error. Proceeded to Game 2 with his choice of play/draw and no sideboarding. He led off with Tarn into Steam Vents untapped into Serum Visions at which point I had put him on Storm already. I didn't have much to play against him main deck but he was slow enough that I was able to combo him out just before he would kill me with the 10 Goblins he got off Empty the Warrens.
Round 2 vs Budget Infect L 1-2
Can't remember games 1 and 2, but Game 3 was close with him just having dismember when I went to combo him the turn before I'd die.
Round 3 vs Merfolk W 2-0
This matchup can be tense but it's always felt pretty easy for me, especially post board. Game 1 was a lot of work with Domri. Game 2 was a combo of an early Ghostly Prison followed by Domri.
Round 4 vs GW Hatebears W 2-0
Was a very close round, game 1 I had to deal with Arbiter and Thalia followed by a late Sword of Light and Shadow. I managed to chump the Light and Shadow when it had come down and then go off through the Arbiter despite making mistakes in fetching before paying for it, I still ended up with exact mana to go off (I had pathed the Thalia earlier in the game).
Game 2 he mulled to 5 but had a very good hand, Noble Hierarch into Sword, Not sure if he had or drew into a Collected Company but it landed Hushwing Gryff and Gaddock Teeg. Many Birds of Paradise were tossed in front of that Light and Shadow, with a few Resto blinks keeping them out of harms way until they ultimately had to be sacrificed. Domri was a house (and a well protected one) and eventually grabbed me the Kiki I needed to combo out the game with ~8 minutes left on the clock.
Round 5 vs Monogreen Stompy W 2-1
This was another really close round, I can't remember the specifics but he had a very explosive game 2 that I just couldn't deal with. I had the combo ready to go but had to chump with the Angel and creatures to survive through the trample. Ghostly Prison was good enough game 3 to slow him down though.
Round 6 vs Burn ID
Drew into Top 8, the Burn player ended up making the Finals where they promptly split prizes in half and RPTQ invite going to the Affinity player (Burn player didn't really want to go anyways, and was underage so couldn't qualify for PT).
Top 8 vs Jund W 2-0
Game 1 was extremely grindy, but Domri and Courser combo gave me enough card advantage to work through until I could combo off. Didn't see a Liliana this game, which might have made a difference.
Game 2: Opponent led with a Inquisition and took something I can't remember, leaving me with a Courser and Scavenging Ooze, but then I drew an Obstinate Baloth *after* which he then did not know about. T2 Goyf and then I played a Wall of Roots and an Ooze (pretty sure I had T1 bird, I might be remembering this sequencing wrong..the ooze may have come down on T3) Turn 3 he Liliana's and -2 to sacrifice something - might have been a courser, or the Wall. But then T4 when he +1ed to discard I dropped the Baloth and from there it was pretty much game. I attacked in to Liliana and he blocked with his 4/5 Goyf, but I scavenged the Liliana he discarded returning Goyf to a 3/4. I piled on card advantage from there but the game ended after I played a Wall of Roots and passed, with the wall of roots mana having been used on my turn I wanted to remove his goyf from the graveyard on upkeep (Ooze still at 2 life) but he had already drawn the card. In my mind I had prompted for the upkeep in a reasonable time and he had gone Untap, Draw...but I was focused in the match. Judge came over and had to rewind, shuffled his 3 cards (Land, Kologhan's Command and the Olivia he said he had just drawn) and put one on top blind...which was the Kologhan's Command that he would have used to hit the Ooze and return the Goyf in response. I'm not terribly satisfied with the outcome, he conceded at that point since it basically won me the game - although at the state of the game even with that play I likely would have won, but I don't like to win games like that. Perhaps the karma of that is what led to me mulliganing into oblivion in the next round vs Affinity.
Ended up with $100 credit for my troubles. Less than the $100 cash, $125 credit that I would have gotten if we had done a Top 4 split, but unfortunately the Affinity player was running hot and didn't want to split, until the finals - which is absolutely his prerogative of course and I don't fault him for it.
First of all congratulations to your great finish!
Could you maybe give us a small summary, which cards where the MVPs of your deck and which cards disappointed you? Which of the finishers was the best in your opinion and what changes would you do? I play a very similiar list to yours and would be really interested in this.
If you're speaking about rickster_, he found the list in the top 32 decklists, I don't think he piloted it.
I did not know that guy but it is nice that a competitive player has interest in this deck (or any related-variant).
One point I do not really undertand is that it plays arbor elf without playing sprawl... Or have they done that after ? Do you know if there is an updated list ?
No Utopia Sprawls, Arbor Elf is just another mana dork.
I like the approach of going for the 4 village bell-ringer and two scryb ranger, coupled with lots of creatures which tap for an effect (fauna, kotr, humble defector). Nice take.
GerryT actually took this deck and streamed it as well, with the guy who did the daily in chat helping a bit. They tuned the deck a bit on top of that. It looks pretty fun, I'm only missing a few cards to give it a try.
A much more useful metric would be the percentage of Esper players that day 2'd, which I don't think is available for GP Charlotte, but that would also probably suffer from a very small sample size.
Well I recall someone saying there were only 4 players on Esper Control, and we know at least 2 made Day 2 (Sullivan and Piotrowiak) so it's at least 50% of the players on Esper, although not even a fraction of a percent of the total meta.
I almost wonder if with the potential for Dredge style decks (that one I've never seen but I'm aware of Dredgevine) and the reanimator decks with Goryo's, if Rest in Peace (or perhaps Leyline of the Void instead) might be an appropriate answer to start running. RiP obviously collaterals ourselves, turning off the CA from Think Twice, shutting down Snapcaster etc, but in those matchups RiP can win the game almost on it's own. Leyline of the Void might be a better card since it doesn't hit our graveyard, but it's worse if you don't open the game with it since these decks can do a lot of damage before you can drop it.
That being said, I can't see the reanimator decks being all that difficult with countermagic to hold them off, but it's still something to consider. Relic might be another option, Grafdigger's Cage is another - it shuts off Snapcaster Mage and Think Twice again but it also has splash hate against Chord and Company - although those decks usually have answers to artifacts mainboard.
I think it's still a 1 or 2 of in the mainboard, potentially with the 2nd copy in the sideboard. I think the upside of having access to that unconditional (aside from lands) removal at instant speed counters the downside of the 3 life. You won't want it in the burn matchup and likely not in the aggro matchups in general, but that's where you sideboard it out. Having access to it for Jund to deal with Liliana, or other midrange decks...it's just a catchall.
It's quite playable. The 3 life part stings a bit, but it's instant speed and exiles. Would be nice if it hits lands but we know that's too powerful for modern-era WoTC. Very glad it's even this good.
It's also the Game Day Top 8 promo:
I consider missing a land drop to be dire straits. But at that point I'm still better off casting it at the end of the opponents turn, unless they're tapped out and I'm expecting a counterspell or a skullcrack etc, then I window it on my turn if tapping out isn't going to be worse. Obviously sequencing is dependent completely on the game state but as often as possible I want to cast it at their end of turn.
I'm not casting Rev on my own turn though, unless I'm in dire straits.
Jace is useless for us IMO. Most lists only run 2, maybe 3 Snapcaster Mages. Aside from the board wipes and some sideboard cards (or Halos/Gideons that some people are running) the entirety of our deck is instant speed and we want to be casting spells on the opponents turn, Jace doesn't allow for this. He's also vulnerable to removal, and since we generally blank removal from the opponent we don't want to be turning it on. Sure, Snapcaster Mages turn it on but we're not playing them for the creature (although it can be incidentally valuable as a blocker or a clock).
I don't think Ashiok does a whole lot for us, but it's worth a test...I think it'd only really be viable as a sideboard card vs control maybe, and there I'd probably rather have Nephalia Drownyard.
This is exactly how I feel about the deck too, it just has so much game in every match that even from behind you can still win the game, or at least have the opportunity to. There's a lot of small interactions that can put you ahead as well and just a ton of versatility. I love what it offers.
I wouldn't cut Linvala, it's a great hedge vs Twin and it shuts Elves down hard as well. It's also just a decent card. It shuts Olivia down in Grixis and Jund. Sure, I side it out often enough in matches where it's just a 3/4 flyer (because there are more relevant cards to bring in) but it's absolutely a great bullet in the deck. I wouldn't want Huntmaster, it's just a winmore card IMO. There's nothing he really does on his own that other cards in the deck don't already offer you. Sure he can generate some value with Resto Angel, but most of the time you're getting 2 life and a pair of 2/2's for 4. He'll probably eat a bolt, a card that otherwise is fairly dead against the majority of your creature base. And we don't have the spells to necessarily continue flipping him back and forth. I do encourage you to test it for yourself, but I wouldn't want to trade Linvala for him, and after that I wouldn't want a 6th 4 drop as it is.
It was for Sin Collectors. 1 main/1 side. I didn't play against control or Twin so it wasn't super relevant in my matchups, but I had played against Grixis Control at FNM on Friday and it was really good in that matchup. Especially since my opponent misplayed around it thinking it was a Tidehollow Sculler type effect instead of just straight exile (from memory, then he read the card after)
Round 1 vs UR Storm W 2-0
Opponent got a game loss for deck registration error. Proceeded to Game 2 with his choice of play/draw and no sideboarding. He led off with Tarn into Steam Vents untapped into Serum Visions at which point I had put him on Storm already. I didn't have much to play against him main deck but he was slow enough that I was able to combo him out just before he would kill me with the 10 Goblins he got off Empty the Warrens.
Round 2 vs Budget Infect L 1-2
Can't remember games 1 and 2, but Game 3 was close with him just having dismember when I went to combo him the turn before I'd die.
Round 3 vs Merfolk W 2-0
This matchup can be tense but it's always felt pretty easy for me, especially post board. Game 1 was a lot of work with Domri. Game 2 was a combo of an early Ghostly Prison followed by Domri.
Round 4 vs GW Hatebears W 2-0
Was a very close round, game 1 I had to deal with Arbiter and Thalia followed by a late Sword of Light and Shadow. I managed to chump the Light and Shadow when it had come down and then go off through the Arbiter despite making mistakes in fetching before paying for it, I still ended up with exact mana to go off (I had pathed the Thalia earlier in the game).
Game 2 he mulled to 5 but had a very good hand, Noble Hierarch into Sword, Not sure if he had or drew into a Collected Company but it landed Hushwing Gryff and Gaddock Teeg. Many Birds of Paradise were tossed in front of that Light and Shadow, with a few Resto blinks keeping them out of harms way until they ultimately had to be sacrificed. Domri was a house (and a well protected one) and eventually grabbed me the Kiki I needed to combo out the game with ~8 minutes left on the clock.
Round 5 vs Monogreen Stompy W 2-1
This was another really close round, I can't remember the specifics but he had a very explosive game 2 that I just couldn't deal with. I had the combo ready to go but had to chump with the Angel and creatures to survive through the trample. Ghostly Prison was good enough game 3 to slow him down though.
Round 6 vs Burn ID
Drew into Top 8, the Burn player ended up making the Finals where they promptly split prizes in half and RPTQ invite going to the Affinity player (Burn player didn't really want to go anyways, and was underage so couldn't qualify for PT).
Top 8 vs Jund W 2-0
Game 1 was extremely grindy, but Domri and Courser combo gave me enough card advantage to work through until I could combo off. Didn't see a Liliana this game, which might have made a difference.
Game 2: Opponent led with a Inquisition and took something I can't remember, leaving me with a Courser and Scavenging Ooze, but then I drew an Obstinate Baloth *after* which he then did not know about. T2 Goyf and then I played a Wall of Roots and an Ooze (pretty sure I had T1 bird, I might be remembering this sequencing wrong..the ooze may have come down on T3) Turn 3 he Liliana's and -2 to sacrifice something - might have been a courser, or the Wall. But then T4 when he +1ed to discard I dropped the Baloth and from there it was pretty much game. I attacked in to Liliana and he blocked with his 4/5 Goyf, but I scavenged the Liliana he discarded returning Goyf to a 3/4. I piled on card advantage from there but the game ended after I played a Wall of Roots and passed, with the wall of roots mana having been used on my turn I wanted to remove his goyf from the graveyard on upkeep (Ooze still at 2 life) but he had already drawn the card. In my mind I had prompted for the upkeep in a reasonable time and he had gone Untap, Draw...but I was focused in the match. Judge came over and had to rewind, shuffled his 3 cards (Land, Kologhan's Command and the Olivia he said he had just drawn) and put one on top blind...which was the Kologhan's Command that he would have used to hit the Ooze and return the Goyf in response. I'm not terribly satisfied with the outcome, he conceded at that point since it basically won me the game - although at the state of the game even with that play I likely would have won, but I don't like to win games like that. Perhaps the karma of that is what led to me mulliganing into oblivion in the next round vs Affinity.
Ended up with $100 credit for my troubles. Less than the $100 cash, $125 credit that I would have gotten if we had done a Top 4 split, but unfortunately the Affinity player was running hot and didn't want to split, until the finals - which is absolutely his prerogative of course and I don't fault him for it.
Seems slow/too cute. Assemble The Legion would probably end up being a better piece with that anyways.
It has a home in EDH. Maybe Standard sideboards. I don't think it's modern playable, I'd rather just play Bribery and steal an emrakul or something.
If you're speaking about rickster_, he found the list in the top 32 decklists, I don't think he piloted it.
No Utopia Sprawls, Arbor Elf is just another mana dork.
GerryT actually took this deck and streamed it as well, with the guy who did the daily in chat helping a bit. They tuned the deck a bit on top of that. It looks pretty fun, I'm only missing a few cards to give it a try.
Well I recall someone saying there were only 4 players on Esper Control, and we know at least 2 made Day 2 (Sullivan and Piotrowiak) so it's at least 50% of the players on Esper, although not even a fraction of a percent of the total meta.
That being said, I can't see the reanimator decks being all that difficult with countermagic to hold them off, but it's still something to consider. Relic might be another option, Grafdigger's Cage is another - it shuts off Snapcaster Mage and Think Twice again but it also has splash hate against Chord and Company - although those decks usually have answers to artifacts mainboard.