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  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Arcx »
    Genesis Wave is a super fun and super good card. It's probably one of the major draws to playing this deck.

    There are a few reasons why you run it over (or with) Tooth and Nail.

    You can cast Genesis Wave for less than Tooth and Nail and still get a lot of value out of it. Genesis wave at 6 mana (X=3) although far from ideal can get you any combination of lands, mana dorks/land enchantments, Courser of Kruphix, Wistful Selkie Strangleroot Geist, etc. Not to mention Eternal Witness! X=4 will get you all the above and add the possibility of Garruk Wildspeaker which may allow you to combo off and wave again, or just put you in a position to be extremely threatening the following turn. Also, if you run a Sarkhan Vol, you give all your creatures +1 and haste and maybe just win on the spot. X=5 is a slightly awkward one but really it will open up Nissa if you run her and just digs an extra card to grab any of the above.

    Now, at X=6 we have a comparison with an entwined Tooth and Nail. Gen Wave for 9 (X=6) is probably the sweet spot for most lists. It grabs Primeval Titan which in turn grabs 2 lands. Usually you grab Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx if you didn't have it already, and Kessig Wolf Run. Plus everything else you got off a wave, you might just be able to just kill them or you've advanced your board so much they won't be able to catch up.

    It's sort of like, Gen wave is a ramp spell, a pseudo tutor, and a win condition. Tooth and Nail is just a tutor/win con and basically a dead card earlier than gen wave.

    Really, if you desperation gen wave for x=3 (cause your hand is bad or they made you discard your primetime,) it could grab you a couple lands and an eternal witness getting back genesis wave or primeval titan and getting you back in the game. stuck on 6 mana with tooth and nail you're pretty much done. Stuck on 7 mana what do you tooth and nail for? Primeval titan and a manadork? Seems pretty not great...

    Also, Gen wave as ramp sort of gives you flexibility to run Primal Command as your main tutor, which is a stellar card for 5 mana. Tutor Emrakul gain 7 or tutor Craterhoof Behemoth put a shock land on top of their deck is usually your turn 3-4 set up for a next turn win.



    I haven't played around with Tooth and Nail much though. Just seems kind of "all or nothing" with out much play in-between. Depends on the rest of the list of course, but I am a big Genesis Wave fan. Grin



    Tooth and Nail is very much an all-in or nothing generally. There's a bit of play with EWitness and Primal Command but that's generally just to stall into Prime Time + Kessig or Tooth and Nail win.

    That being said, I generally Tooth and Nail into Prime Time and Eternal Witness when doing so.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    I had a thought this morning, that is far better than Street Spasm and something I had considered running anyways. Bonfire of the Damned. I loved this card in Wolf Run Ramp back in Standard, it was pretty much the plague of that standard format aside from Delver. It accomplishes Pyroclasm for 4R in hand, or 2R off the top, and late game can just blow out a board. I'm thinking about running 2 of these in the board instead of the 2 pyroclasms I was going to run.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    That list is going to be my starting point when I pick the deck up in a month or three. It's beautiful.

    While I haven't played the deck yet, I'd agree with your thoughts on Ooze and Slime. Those cards can be good in the toolbox version, but this version just wants big splashy cards, not grindy cards that do nothing but grind. Pyroclasm is quite relevant and powerful but kills our guys too, so I would use Street Spasm. Regarding Corrosion, I'm not sure why Fracturing Gust isn't run instead - that seems incorrect.


    Fracturing Gust would kill Overgrowth/Utopia Sprawl. I definitely don't want to be doing that.

    You have a point that I didn't actually consider on Pyroclasm, it would kill our dorks. Street Spasm is a terrible card though, I need 6 mana to do what Pyroclasm does, and it won't hit delvers, Cliques or Spirit tokens. The only thing that comes close is maybe Electrickery, but RR can actually be quite hard in the early game - keep in mind that this is still mostly a base green deck, the red is only there for Kessig and sideboard cards. Plus Electrickery really doesn't deal with X/2s that I need it to.

    In the matchups I want Pyroclasm for, I think sacrificing an onboard Dork to take out a significant board presence is just a sacrifice you have to make. I'd likely lean towards siding out dorks in this scenario. For example, Elves dropping an Elvish Mystic and then following it up with a Nettle Sentinel, Heritage Druid and Visionary is a board I don't mind getting rid of. You can possibly wait and try and take out the archdruid that comes down next turn as well, either way you're setting them back long enough that you can get more defenses up.

    It maybe works out a bit worse in the Hate Bears matchup, and since Pyroclasm doesn't hit Liege or Smiter there anyways, it may not be a card I want to side in. Especially against a Liege'd board, nothing but Thalia would get hit by it.

    It's still going to be fairly good against Affinity, although were I expecting Affinity I'd probably put the Creeping Corrosions back in the sideboard. Keeping in mind this list came from MTGO, where Burn is very highly played due to it's low cost, all the burn hate might not be necessary - I opted to keep it in based on all of the burn I usually see at the store, but after not seeing much last night, I don't know if I'll need quite as much. The Nylea's Disciple might be a cut for me.

    I've been at work all day so I haven't had much time to consider what I want to cut from the board for the Pyroclasms, but I do know that I want to run them to see how they'll work. All I know is I was longing for them in that Elves matchup, and not having access to it really hurt.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Last night I played in our stores weekly modern tournament. Had a pretty good turnout this week with 24 people, a lot of non-regulars and as such we actually had a pretty diverse meta (which kinda boned my sideboard strategy of burn/tron hate - faced neither).
    Entry was $10, prizing was Foil Cryptic Command for the top 4-0, or $80 credit to 1st if no 4-0. 2nd got $60 credit, 3rd and 4th $30 credit, 5th and 6th $20 credit.

    I ended up 4th for $30 credit, beating out a 3-0 I got paired up against in the last round, and having lost to the player who placed 2nd (of which me beating the 3-0 let him have).

    I ran the following Tooth and Nail list, based off Uegjo's list on MTGO that has been 3-1ing dailies for a couple months (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9674&d=255616&f=MO). I altered the sideboard slightly but left the maindeck intact since I've had no play with this deck and wanted to get a feel for the cards myself first before making any changes other than SB alterations.

    The sideboard changes I made from this list were:
    -1 Creeping Corrosion
    -1 Nature's Claim
    -1 Nylea's Disciple (the list I actually used was a more recent result that MTGTop8 didn't pull for some reason, it only had 1 disciple)
    -1 Scavenging Ooze
    +2 Blood Moon
    +1 Thragtusk
    +1 Rending Volley (this was in the list I pulled from in place of the disciple)

    Reasonings for these changes, last week the meta was pretty much Tron, Infect and burn. There's no affinity (turns out there was one last night but I didn't play him) so Creeping Corrosion just isn't great. Nature's Claim I didn't feel I needed either and wanted space to try some other cards. The ooze I felt was redundant, and honestly I wasn't impressed with the maindeck ones after last night anyways. I wanted to give Thragtusk a try for the burn matchup, just because I feel like dropping it would crush their spirit, and also Thragtusk is awesome. Unfortunately I never got to play him. The 2 extra Blood Moons were for the prevalence of Tron and also the usual 1 Amulet Bloom player (wasn't there).



    Round 1 (2-1): R/G Aura Tricks (honestly don't know what to call it. It was not a competitive list though).
    G1: (L) Didn't have much of anything going on and lost to a Madcap Skills + Flesh // Blood
    G2: (W) He kept a hand without the right mana hoping to get there in 3 draws, I beat down with a Scavenging Ooze all the way to victory.
    G3: (W) Managed to stall out the board with Garruk long enough to drop the Tooth and Nail combo and swing for 30 to the face.
    Notes: Only boarding I did here was to bring in 3 Lightning Bolts and sided out the 2 Harmonize and 1 Eternal Witness - Harmonize just seemed like it would be too slow in this match.
    1-0

    Round 2 (0-2): Collected Elves (as far as I was concerned it was just Elves. He didn't even need Collected Company to roll over my face, nor did he even cast one)
    G1: (L) I kept a decent hand but it wasn't fast enough to contend with a Chorded in Ezuri after turn 3 that rolled through for 26+ damage.
    Sideboard: -2 Harmonize, -1 Eternal Witness +3 Lightning Bolt. It's here that I really wish I had put 2 Pyroclasms in my sideboard like I had been thinking of doing
    G2: (L) Mulligan to 5 keeping a Kessig, Forest, 2 Bolts and some other spell I couldn't cast anyways. Got rolled over after drawing another bolt but no red source which would have helped or even any source of mana.
    Notes: This player previously played burn which I loathed when I played him with Grixis Delver last week...when we got paired up he said "at least I'm not playing burn this week" to which I replied..."damnit". Definitely putting 2 Pyroclasms in the board now, previously hadn't seen elves or any sort of board aggro at the store.
    1-1

    Round 3 (2-0): Hate Bears
    I don't remember much of the specifics of this match, since my last round was also hate bears and it was a lot more grindy of a match. I ended up rolling him over with Emrakul both games and he had no real plan against it. The only thing of note was he was able to Path to Exile my Xenagos in Game 1 because I had 7 devotion to RG on the board, so I had to wait a turn to kill him. Game 2 wasn't even close really.

    Round 4 (2-0): Hate Bears (but more hatey)
    G1: (W) This match was really grindy. I started off with an Arbor Elf but didn't have an enchantment to follow up with, and his T2 Thalia really did a number of my plays since they were all 4+ non-creatures. Leonin Arbiter also was a bit of a pain. I cast Primal Command 3 times gaining 7 and putting his Stirring Wildwood on the top for the first 2 (with him only on 3 lands) and then gained 7 and grabbed + cast Eternal Witness on the 3rd one to grab Primal Command back. I ended up comboing out with Tooth and Nail to just kill him, but this game was very grindy and I was dead without those Primal Commands. Of note I had Nissa and Garruk on the board for several turns, and they really helped gum up the board. He also had a Ghost Quarter on the board since turn 2 that he never used. I'm not sure if he didn't realize the implications of blowing up my overgrowthed forest - maybe he didn't realize it could target basic lands.
    G2: (W) The first game took so long that a few turns in we got the 5 minute warning. I had again a pretty stalled out board, although he had Leonin Arbiter again which was making things difficult to cast. I started Arbor Elf into Voyaging Satyr and he blew both of them up with a Path to Exile each that I couldn't fetch lands for because of the Arbiter. I dropped another Arbor Elf the next turn and curved into Garruk, then Nissa. At one point I was facing down a Stirring Wildwood, Loxodon Smiter, Arbiter on board. I had one card in my hand which was a Primal Command, so my thought was to cast it, grab a Titan and then play it. Unfortunately I made a savage misplay here, getting greedy to try and fade him a draw step and set his board back by targeting the Stirring Wildwood that could be activated. So he activated it and fizzled my Command. I should have just bounced the Aether Vial that was sitting on 3. I ended up drawing Tooth and Nail the next turn and killed him with Emragos. on Turn 1 of turns.
    Notes; I sideboarded in Lightning Bolts but never saw them. Pyroclasm would be great in the board for this matchup too.

    Overall I was fairly happy with the results for the first night out. The list definitely needs Pyroclasm, I feel like I would have had a real chance against Elves with it. I didn't get to see how any of my sideboard hate really worked because I didn't face the matchups. So my sideboard changes will be a bit more difficult to evaluate. I have a modern FNM on Friday which I will take almost the same list to and see how it fares.

    I don't particularly like the Scavenging Oozes in the main, but they're not terrible so I think they deserve more testing. However I almost wonder if these should just be Fertile Grounds. This deck is fairly all in on the combo, so having a few more pieces to it might be necessary, I'm not entirely sure without more samples to look at. I really don't know why the Acidic Slime is in the main, it just wasn't impactful at all for me. Without Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling I don't think it's particularly useful in the list, and it's too expensive for what it is. I think Reclamation Sage would just do what it does better, not sure I need the land destruction main - it's not really reliable enough as tron hate especially since it doesn't come down very quick. Overall I don't even know if I'd replace it with Reclamation Sage either since I don't think it's an effect I want in the mainboard. I'm considering shoving Thragtusk in this slot, freeing up a SB slot and giving me a bit more of a grind game to work with in the mainboard.

    At first I wasn't sure about the Nissa, but she proved herself in the grindy games in Round 4 vs Hatebears. The untapping of 4 forests also provides a decent amount of ramp. I had originally considered that she might be better fit as a 4th Garruk, but she's certainly proven her worth. I feel like she'll be very useful vs Jund (I also expect Scavenging Ooze to be very good against them).
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on MTGOTraders/Cape Fear Games discussion thread
    Sent a list of my MTGO collection in to MTGO Traders and was *pleasantly* shocked to see how much they offered me for it. Immediately accepted and the process was taken care of seamlessly and the money was wired to me as soon as they were done. Can't recommend them more - I've bought many, many cards from them in the past and had nothing but good experiences in that department as well.
    Posted in: Store Discussion
  • posted a message on Replacement or Better DCI Cards?
    If you want to spend like $10 you can get a plastic DCI card made, it's pretty nice I've had one for about 2 years..although I only need it after long times of not playing since it's memorized.

    http://www.customdcicards.com/
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [[THS]] Medomai the Ageless, Chained to the Rocks, Thoughtseize, Dual Lands, Magma Jet
    Quote from broodwarjc
    I guess the Horizon-esque lands will be without the pay 1 life and some other draw-back, since Wizards has said over and over that casual players don't like pain land abilities.


    Why? This isn't a core set. No reason we can't have painlands in an expert level set.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Ben Stark "What does Thundermaw do?" How would you respond?
    I know what you're thinking, Ben. You're thinking "does he have the win in hand or not?" Now to tell you the truth I don't know myself in all this excitement. But being that if you tap out and I do have it you lose, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]


    You'll find this more suited to the Gruul Zoo thread; It's essentially Gruul Zoo splashing white. The Naya Zoo builds are generally more midrange.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    Quote from chrisloffer
    I'm playing Kiblers list with 3x Domri Rade. It's a very fun deck to play but I'm having doubts about Lotus Cobra. Is it really necessary? It's acceleration, but there is already six mana dudes in the deck. The only application I see is a turn 3 Thundermaw Hellkite, otherwise it is just a 2/1.

    I haven't played with the Cobra that much, so I might be undervaluing it's importance, so if any one else that is more experienced would like to explain it's part in the deck and how to correctly play it, that would be nice.

    Otherwise I'm thinking about replacing it with another two drop, e.g. Voice of Resurgence or Scavenging Ooze, when it is released in M14. Thoughts?


    I asked him on one of his streams what #'s he ran for Voice of Resurgence in Portland and he said he cut the Finks and a pridemage for 3 of them, and that 4 was probably correct and that he might drop the lotus cobra's since Voice is much better in the 2 drop. So I ended up cutting the cobras and finks in my version for 4 voice's, leaving the 1 pridemage. I haven't had any problems with it. Cobra can be nice to explode into Hellkite or generate a big Kessig, but more often than not Cobra gets killed.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    Quote from ApocryphaEffect
    How good is 'Goyf in these decks? Most of them are 80% creatures and lands with a couple Planeswalkers and Instants. With no way of feeding the graveyard and with only a few card types it seems like Goyf would be anemic.


    He's pretty good. Figure by T2 against a lot of decks you will have the following sequence:

    You: T1 Fetch, DRS
    Opp: T1 Land, Bolt DRS
    You: T2 Land, Goyf (land, creature, instant =3/4)
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Who will ship MM to Canada?
    Quote from SweetoothTKC
    This raises a question I've had for a while: What are the legal ramifications of having someone in the US buy a box then send it to someone in Canada?


    You can order it from Canada and have it shipped in the US, and then cross-border it. It's normally just a giant hassle though so that accomplishes what WoTC desires for it. For a set like Modern Masters the hassle becomes worth it though.

    I don't purchase stuff off US sites generally anyways. Can't compare to the shipping and customer service of Facetoface.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Who will ship MM to Canada?
    Quote from crimhead
    Wow. WotC are jerks!


    It's to protect the LGS in other countries.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Deck Type Modern Highland
    I've never heard of it. I know what highlander is, but I've never heard of anyone playing that with Modern. It just sounds so...painful.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [Deck] Modern Cheeri0s Reboot
    Quote from Sabertooth
    what do you think about a single ad nauseam as a secondary engine?


    It's really too expensive for this deck. Spoils is good because it costs 1 mana.

    When the legend rule was announced, this was actually the first deck I thought of. But the UWR deck is still a huge problem for this deck, and it's going to continue to be an issue due to its decent performance at Portland.

    Now, maybe we'll see a lot more Melira Pod decks, which bodes better for the matchup than UWR.

    The main reason I didn't jump on this deck is just because I don't see how to play around Lightning Bolt. (as a generic catchall for the ubiquitous removal in the format). Jund/UWR are going to be tough matchups...the deck is really just missing one thing to push it through I think.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
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