The quick bash that used to be successful isn't so much anymore now people are packing cards to hate it (timelys got me last week, soul sisters is all over online, finks is back with a vengeance) and the older lists were ALL about the hyper bash. Most lists are looking more for the longer game now. Still fast as hell, but they have dropped things like rancor, even guide sometimes.
My list (running white) is a turn slower, but is a tad more stable, and doesnt hurt to clasm at all. Likewise, in my testing Domri Rade has been fantastic in games that draw out a little. Hes grim lavamancer with semi repeatable removal and helps longer out the game when I need it. With out him the soulsisters match is almost unwinnable game 1. But the doubleing the creatures and removal on soul sisters is really good. Game 2 fallout has cracked the game open for me.
The deck was great if you could get the explosive draw but I was getting very screwed on bad hands...and if you don't get in fast you fall behind quickly. I think I like the kibler big naya zoo list better, it has much more play to it.
Apologize for the delay, haven't been checking here as often, been busy the last week or so and modern season is dead so I haven't been playing or brewing much lately. Although I may put this deck together..I like it better, has less of a reliance on good draws, which is where I was getting constantly screwed at the PTQs. All I need are KoTR and Lotus Cobras...as well as Thundermaws because I traded mine in for legacy stuff since they're at 35...so I may be waiting until after rotation to buy some (unless they reprint in which case, price should go down a bit anyways)
For those of you who have access to Starcity Games Premium - Kibler posted an article about his midrange Naya build that he played at GP San Diego. He didn't actually include the decklist he ran there, but he talked about all the card slots (you can get the list he ran from the GP results since he Top 8'ed). He did post a modified decklist he would use going forward...which I think I might adopt over the Gruul Zoo I've been running. Just need to pick some KoTR and regain Thundermaw Hellkites which I'll probably wait till summer to do when they drop (or if they get reprinted in M14).
I'd post the decklist but I'm unsure of the rules regarding that since it is a premium article after all.
Ive been testing this with pretty good success, but then again its just living end, tron, B/W aggro (i dont even know). Im at work so i dont have my list, but Ive been using Mogg Warmarshal along with Jund Hackblade to produce enough goblin density in the deck to use goblin grenade. What does everyone think? So far it seems pretty consistant, and goblin grenade doesnt get stranded in the hand too often.Only issue I see is that experiment one does not evolve off of the warmarshal.
Where do they fit in? I think you're talking about a completely different build..War Marshal really has no business being in the deck, Hackblade I feel just isn't good enough considering the only multicolored creature you have is Burning Tree (other than hackblade)..so you're playing 8 cards to make 4 be still fairly lackluster. What happens when you get stuck with a grenade or 2 in hand with no goblins? There's a goblin list that's been getting popular and I've played it on MTGO and it's pretty good...that's where grenade shines.
Playing this deck has taught me how stupidly good Elspeth is. Do you guys think Hedge Troll is strong enough for this deck? It has very cheap regen. What about Rancor to get through chump blockers? Snake Umbra gives us card draw for the mid and late game and makes creatures even more resilient with Totem Armor but is a bit expensive and the Totem Armor may be redundant when we have regen.
3 mana and it doesn't have Hexproof. No, it's not good enough. Stick to Geist and Ascetic.
So I'm really liking Vexing Devil, which is unexpected for me as I've hated that card (and all Punisher cards) since day one. This deck is honestly perfect for him. 9 times out of ten he's a one-sided Flame Rift and the other times he either eats a removal spell or helps beat your opponent down (say they couldn't afford to pay the 4, you've got another overcosted fatty on the board!). Also evolves E1 a as far as 4/4 where previously only Goyf could push it past 3/3.
Currently I'm testing Talara's Battalion in this deck and actually find that its good so far. I know I mentioned it earlier but didn't get any responses. Last night I played gamws against the mirror, Jund and Pod and Battalion was good in all those MUs (against pod because she can swing into Wall of Roots and trades with Restoration Angel - they've got a lot of 4-toughness guys). A few times I topdecked one or had one stuck in my hand but not often at all (I was running two). Usually she came down off BTE or I'd be holding another one drop anyway on turn three. Anyone else remember the hype when Battalion came out? How she preordered at 20 bucks and was gonna be the next Goyf but turned out being crap? I think it may finally be her time!
Also Lantern should that list be here and not in the Naya thread?
I don't think she replaces Goyf though, since she's boltable. Maybe 2 and 2 with Flinthoof?
Round 3: VS. tron (2-1)
Game 1 I kept a 1 land hand. it was a mistake and I lost. Whoopsies. I really ought to learn not too keep bad hands...
Out:all burn
In: grudge, silence, path, moons.
Game 2 I didnt really see hate, and ran him over.
Game 3 I pathed a wurmcoil then landed blood moon. It was way past over. yay!
Round 4: VS. Junk. (2-1)
Played my best friend, hes always a blast to play with. The other games was pretty simple, run over them, if I see hate cool, if I don't, run them over anyways. But he knows my tricks so its a lot harder.
Game 1 I was able to just simply over run him, but I think the game would have been a a lot harder if he makes the right discard choice, getting rid of my goyf. I still think I would have pulled through, but my hand was very close to empty when I won.
Game 2 I kept a slower hand, which I should not have. But fun enough, theres enough combat tricks to keep a 4/2 trample burningtree alive and able to eat 6-8 tokens before dying, and still get the opponent to around 5ish life. Sorin kills me. Beh.
Game 3 I ran over him once more. Vines did some work here, letting me trample over (with rancor and ghor), for 12
I love boros charm, but more and more Im wodering if I need less removal. I'm going to look at these new lists that run less removal, more vexing and deathrite.
I'm surprised you didn't get a game loss round 1 for an illegal decklist 59 cards
Not main deck, nope. I had it in my side and its doing fine.
Boroscharm is awesome too, and vexing devil... Suprisingly good. Feeds goyf too...
What did you cut for Vexing? What's your list look like now? Got a PTQ tomorrow I wasn't sure I'd be able to make that I can now so I need to tune my list.
I'm also liking what Kibler is playing at GPSD...bigger zoo with KoTR, but I don't think I can get my hands on knights easy so.
Really there is 3 zoos running around, each doing different things. You have Gruul zoo, which is straight forward, attack style. The exact core, colors, and spells suite is still largely unknown, as its still being developed.
You have Naya big zoo, which is sorta known, as its not a new archtype or anything. Its been experimenting with adding a bit of burning tree tech, as well as planeswalkers, and blood moons main.
Then lastly is domain zoo. Domain sorta has 2 heads, really aggressive and fast, and midrange. Both are doing fine and putting up results, just the later realies on getting in with bigger creatures like giest, and the former realies on early damage with apes, guides, and burn.
Hunt master falls a bit into domain zoo. Hes a card that the game goes longer, he gets more value. Most Zoo builds dont care for that (Jund however does.)
Smiter is great if your planning to dip into the midgame. Hes been used in some Gruul zoo lists, staple in naya, and sees play over giest sometimes in domain. Knight of the Relqury is better, but with so much grave hate in this format, shes harder to run.
Now what I would really like to see is a gruul zoo, creature core, backed with domain zoo burn.
I've seen them around, but you also splash in Deathrite Shaman...just because. He's awesome.
Here's a card for magical christmasland BTE chains:
Ok, I admit, I am a bit salty at the price tag. Especially since I sold my real life set for only $220 a few years ago.
That being said, in the goyf-less build of the deck that has been showing up, I do feel he is by no means good enough to justify the price if you don't already own them (which I agree shouldn't be taken into account in competitive play, ultimately).
He is definitely of more value in the traditional lists running him, RUG, etc. that run less creatures.
So there's a case for testing him, which I won't be doing obviously.
If I were, I guess maybe flinthoof boar might be what I'd replace, not berserker though, berserker has won me too many games with his second ability so far. The deck is so fast that they rarely can deal with having to assign 2 blockers before you win.
I think Tarmogoyf will eventually find a slot in the deck if the deck stays popular and the meta starts adjusting to deal with it. he could add a lot of stability to the deck, but right now it seems too easy to just win without him, and the wins feel like they wouldn't be helped by his inclusion as of yet
If you read back, I was completely against Goyf because I thought we had to work too hard to make him good.
Run Seal of Fire and Forked Bolt and/or Arc Trail. He's instantly better. It's not even comparable. I ran the list with him and SoF/Forked Bolt/Arc Trail at a PTQ and he was a house every time. Not to mention he's even better vs affinity.
There is a method to the aboves madness... Just ignore it for now...
New front page?
And with regards to Todd's list, his reasons for Deglamer being better than Ancient grudge are solely Wurmcoil Engine. I have path for that, it works better. Tron often doesn't find a land off the PTE anyways, and if they do it's not that big of a deal. Ancient grudge is just such a house against affinity.
Honestly, I've said this on Reddit before...but simply by removing Duals from the reserve list, would do wonders. Hell, alter it so the old art, old frame duals can never be reprinted, and only the ones from the MODO (or cube art..don't remember) can be printed in new frames...and you'll at least still have the "pimp factor" keeping the old duals at a higher price. Just like FutureShifted Frame Goyfs are going to command a premium over whatever the new Goyfs end up settling at.
Plus, it's not like they would decide to reprint the duals in a regular expansion...they've already stated the Shocklands are about as close to power of the duals they want, so they'd likely only do it in a commander product, or a Legacy Masters product...where they could keep the print run from being too excessive.
But again, it's been beaten to death and it will take someone at WoTC to do something about it. It could very well be Hasbro that's keeping it down. There was also rumours that people thought there were lawsuits filed when they reprinted the promo copies in FTV, and that WoTC made them go away by changing the RL policy to fix the "loophole". That may be the reason they nixed the snow duals in the commander product as well.
The deck was great if you could get the explosive draw but I was getting very screwed on bad hands...and if you don't get in fast you fall behind quickly. I think I like the kibler big naya zoo list better, it has much more play to it.
If a mod is asking for it, must be ok
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Lotus Cobra
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Tarmogoyf
Planeswalkers
3 Domri Rade
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Instants
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Treetop Village
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Stony Silence
1 Batterskull
1 Torpor Orb
1 Combust
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Blood Moon
Apologize for the delay, haven't been checking here as often, been busy the last week or so and modern season is dead so I haven't been playing or brewing much lately. Although I may put this deck together..I like it better, has less of a reliance on good draws, which is where I was getting constantly screwed at the PTQs. All I need are KoTR and Lotus Cobras...as well as Thundermaws because I traded mine in for legacy stuff since they're at 35...so I may be waiting until after rotation to buy some (unless they reprint in which case, price should go down a bit anyways)
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25866_Getting-The-Band-Back-Together.html
It's on the front page.
I'd post the decklist but I'm unsure of the rules regarding that since it is a premium article after all.
Where do they fit in? I think you're talking about a completely different build..War Marshal really has no business being in the deck, Hackblade I feel just isn't good enough considering the only multicolored creature you have is Burning Tree (other than hackblade)..so you're playing 8 cards to make 4 be still fairly lackluster. What happens when you get stuck with a grenade or 2 in hand with no goblins? There's a goblin list that's been getting popular and I've played it on MTGO and it's pretty good...that's where grenade shines.
3 mana and it doesn't have Hexproof. No, it's not good enough. Stick to Geist and Ascetic.
I don't think she replaces Goyf though, since she's boltable. Maybe 2 and 2 with Flinthoof?
I'm surprised you didn't get a game loss round 1 for an illegal decklist
Me too. It's running 2 Lotus Cobra. Probably 4 Noble Hierarchs.
What did you cut for Vexing? What's your list look like now? Got a PTQ tomorrow I wasn't sure I'd be able to make that I can now so I need to tune my list.
I'm also liking what Kibler is playing at GPSD...bigger zoo with KoTR, but I don't think I can get my hands on knights easy so.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=391039
I've seen them around, but you also splash in Deathrite Shaman...just because. He's awesome.
Here's a card for magical christmasland BTE chains:
Storm Entity
T1: Experiment 1
T2: BTE->BTE->BTE->Storm Entity, attack for 6
T3: Flinthoof Boar, attack for 15? GG t3?
Yes please?
If you read back, I was completely against Goyf because I thought we had to work too hard to make him good.
Run Seal of Fire and Forked Bolt and/or Arc Trail. He's instantly better. It's not even comparable. I ran the list with him and SoF/Forked Bolt/Arc Trail at a PTQ and he was a house every time. Not to mention he's even better vs affinity.
New front page?
And with regards to Todd's list, his reasons for Deglamer being better than Ancient grudge are solely Wurmcoil Engine. I have path for that, it works better. Tron often doesn't find a land off the PTE anyways, and if they do it's not that big of a deal. Ancient grudge is just such a house against affinity.
Plus, it's not like they would decide to reprint the duals in a regular expansion...they've already stated the Shocklands are about as close to power of the duals they want, so they'd likely only do it in a commander product, or a Legacy Masters product...where they could keep the print run from being too excessive.
But again, it's been beaten to death and it will take someone at WoTC to do something about it. It could very well be Hasbro that's keeping it down. There was also rumours that people thought there were lawsuits filed when they reprinted the promo copies in FTV, and that WoTC made them go away by changing the RL policy to fix the "loophole". That may be the reason they nixed the snow duals in the commander product as well.