MTG Salvation

Little Teferi is a Prison card, in my opinion. @idSurge, I think that's why you get that bad feel when you play him. He's just a Prison card that masquerades as a Control piece.

Control tends to continually need more resources to keep it's opponent at bay, Prison plays a few things and generally renders a deck useless. Teferi, does get you more resources, but the single card draw and bounce is peanuts compared to what he does with his passive; that's one card rendering many irrelevant.

Is it a perfect analogy? Nope. I'm not going to even pretend it is, but it's pretty close to how I view Teferi.

Quote from krishnath »

Seething Song

Seething Song is not Modern legal. I would look to Planebound Accomplice for silliness. Throw in a nice Cloudstone Curio for sustainability in a superfriends like list.

Even a T3 Chandra is still not killing you by the time most other decks are. I really don't see the issue when other lists are sporting very fast and difficult to interact with wins. Other lists are playing an 8/8 trample on T2, but instead of making sense they're milling you. Other lists literally have that many resources and that same deck has been seen putting 100 power into play on T3. This emblem is a joke by comparison. Tired of Hogaak comparisons? How about free 4/4s? Multiple 3/2 flying haste for free? T1 Blood Moon? T4 Lattice Lock? T3 Liberated? It goes on and on, but they print something that isn't free, isn't graveyard, and isn't linear and people gush about how it's too strong and you have to be able to interact with it.

All that said, I'm still a control player, I'm still going to be killing people with these emblems. Why? Because if control can manage getting to a safe board state by T6, then they deserve to win and you don't deserve an out- that's the advantage gained for going slow. Not to mention it probably takes a good 4 turns to win anyway; realize that many decks could start the turn you play her and win faster.

Quote from CatParty »

Quote from idSurge »

I would hope it never goes beyond things like Pridemate then. I doubt, deeply, that if Wizards has even thought about this, that they would consider the ramifications to Legacy and Modern.

It would (will?) be beyond obnoxious.

If people find this thread unbearable now, let's start thinking about us fighting over 1 mana difference, or 1 toughness.

No thanks.

I understand Ajani's Pridemate was errata'd to be a "MUST" ability - but what was the cause of this? Did it screw with the program's system, or the game play?

Things like this have back and forth game play ramifications that bother me. Take just Pridemate, for example, if I know I'm playing around a Citywide Bust, I may not want to take the advantage of those +1/+1 counters. Not all advantages are advantages in all cases; I had this come up like a month ago with WAR when I proliferated one of my opponent's creatures into a 4/4 to Despark it (or something while Drafting).

I'm just not sure all these things should be messed with even when you think it's taking the advantage, that "may" is a very powerful word.

I'm not yet on the ban wagon for this one, but I do think it's really annoying that they keep printing "0cmc" things for graveyard decks. Now we have everything from 2/1s, 3/3s, and 3/2 fliers to an 8/8, back down to 2/2 token swarm that in some lists for no reason turns into a 9/7 for R as well as a 4/3 haste in a random color, now we're looking at the potential for T2 mill with grave strategy back up. But SFM is still banned? Counterspell is too good? We can only allow one flavor of control and it's UW? Give me a break.

Hogaak is probably just another passing phase, but they keep printing the same stuff that keeps getting this "WHOA, IT'S FREE, BROKEN META FOR SIX MONTHS BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH TOURNAMENT RESULTS"* and always in the same strategy (graveyard) and it's getting tiring. I admit they did actually ban KCI, but they epicly failed to recognize that hate cards like RIP and Void are getting out paced by yard strategies once they figure out the play pattern. It's still happening. We've seen Dredge vine win T2 against RIP, regular dredge pull out wins against good solid hate, Phoenix ignore it and win with other angles because "xerox" (like hard casting a Phoenix because you have low removal now). And now they think they'll just print an 8/8 that's psudo free AND give it a new win angle in mill!? How is this different?

After Hogaak is adequately hated out of the meta, I can't wait for them to print the next grave strategy that we have to lament over for the next 3-6 months despite me owning literally all of the grave hate relevant to anyone (I even went out of my way to get 4 Withered Wretch) and for no reason other than WotC "forgot it breaks things". Remember when you had to pay for things? Remember when the benefit from playing land was that you could generate more mana? Well now it's that you get two 2/1s, a couple 3/3s, and maybe an 8/8. Remember when the text on spells mattered beyond "cantrip"? Well, doesn't matter now because you get a few 3/2 flying haste! Counterspell kills diversity, but if I smack my deck full of "draw a card" I can play 3 of the exact same creature every game for 6 months.

I'll admit that control got some toys. We got some powerful things. But where is the free stuff? Azcanta is a T2 do nothing. Jace, as we've all found out, is pretty fragile. Teferi comes into play after you're dead. Veto is a card that only polices control, so it's awesome that control now pushes itself out of the meta. Archmage's Charm is pretty middling to bad. Force of Negation? Good sideboard tech against niche decks. Where is my removal that I can use every time I play a land? Why can't I cast Essence Scatter every time I cast 3 spells? Snapcaster? You know that costs actual mana, right? And then I still have to pay for the spell!

Tired of graveyards. Tired of free. Tired of being told "you're getting powerful things" only to watch it receive minimal testing at release and no one pay it a second thought.

/rant

*Not trying to shoot at ktk, btw, just how they ban things or how long it takes the meta to adjust.

I apologize. I would expect downvotes, but as a great king once said "We, we don't do that here."

I sort of have three reactions to this.

1) I think this is a wonderful addition to the format. I hope it continues the march toward preventing non-games.

2) If combo becomes degenerate and they do ban it out of existence, then I default back to #1.

3) If combo does become degenerate and they do nothing about it, then this is the exact reason I was very against a Force of Will type card originally. While I am happy to see the whole cycle, I do fear that it has paved the way for it to be a requirement and for more degenerate things to be printed.

Overall I think the rule change is good. While I can see that it probably pushes some decks harder than it pushes other decks, I do think there were other steps taken have a more direct impact on the allowance of such combo to exist. While I have nothing against combo, I do have thoughts about the T4 rule.

Quote from ktkenshinx »

I want to pose to you the same question I posed to others: where did your hyped expectations come from?

I went back and rewatched the announcement and they literally say (@14:48) "you don't have to worry about putting cards that are too broken into Standard. They can just skip into where they're meant to be" then the other two just agree, then they name a couple cards that have made a difference in Modern. Then @21:03 Nassif, "... as you were saying, sets generally don't have that big of an impact on Modern. Maybe 5ish cards can break through and make an impact because for whatever reason in the context of Modern they are more powerful than in the context of Standard, so there are things that can be printed into Standard safely while being powerful in Modern, but the majority of the time it's tough to do that. With this set you can just push the boundaries completely" then goes on to describe some things that would be too much for Standard (despite WotC admittedly considering Counterspell for Standard).

On the other hand... The dude in red does temper Nassif's statement a bit by saying that Nassif doesn't know what's in the set. Then after the cards are revealed, the guy in Blue says, "...an opportunity to deliver a bunch of stuff from a creative, or flavor, or mechanical direction that we've been wanting to do for awhile but couldn't find a place... Of course we try to fit them into Standard if we can but there's alot of ways that they can't. Either for complexity or the wrong audience and the answer just has to be 'no'".

I mostly wanted to include that first paragraph to show that the initial announcement of the set does set a power level expectation in the vein of "this will impact Modern more than a Standard set" and "we can print things that are too good for Standard". You can argue that all that doesn't matter because of the statements in the second paragraph, but frankly they don't actually relate to reining in the power level expectations that have now been set on an official WotC announcement.

Maybe there are more relevant quotes, maybe not. But evidence has been provided.

"[MH1] - Mirrodin Besieged"

H-how are they putting the whole set of MBS into MH1? Oh, it's a Dragons vs Khans style card, neat! "... loses the game..."- what thee actual hell?

Goes in Whir as a side card or as a 1 of alternate win? I don't see Affinity wanting this and can't think of any other Modern decks that would care for this unless Lantern returns. Too bad Lattice doesn't make everything in all zones Artifacts, just makes them colorless.

Quote from Lord Seth »

The inclusion of the Swords makes me wonder if we may see the printing of a "fixed" Stoneforge Mystic that will work with the Swords but not Batterskull (e.g. a Stoneforge Mystic that only works with equipment that costs 3 or less).

I think you're looking for Goblin Engineer.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

I'm really not understanding the *****ing about counter spell.

This is how people can complain about Counterspell:

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

Sweet art work but it looks underwhelming.


I'm not sure I love the idea of SFM being unbanned anymore...I think UW midrange/control would see a major restructure but I don't love the risk. I'm beginning to agree---what is she benefitting in modern right now? DnT? It's certainly not UW decks. Abzan...has some serious fundamental issues that is outdated in modern now. Abzan would still be a very bad deck.

The difference is that Counterspell is a specific card people want and what was given wasn't good enough compared to SFM being a potential and you saying it's not good enough.

I think Planebound Accomplice needs a flicker effect to make him really shine. Pay a R, slam that minus button, flicker the walker for sustained value. Too bad Astral Drift can't hit walkers... Unless you turn them into DRAGONS!!

This is too silly.

Glen Elendra Archmage is not legendary, and neither is Phantasmal Image or Renegade Rallier. If you put Phantasmal Image onto the battlefield as a copy of Glen Elendra Archmage, Phantasmal Image will gain the triggered ability mentioned on Phantasmal Image and that's it. Moreover, nothing is targeted as you put Phantasmal Image onto the battlefield this way (Phantasmal Image's ability doesn't say "target [something]" or use a keyword that does [C.R. 115.9]). However, if Phantasmal Image were to enter the battlefield under your control as a copy of Renegade Rallier, the ability Phantasmal Image would gain from Renegade Rallier would trigger provided a permanent you controlled left the battlefield this turn (C.R. 603.6a-b, 603.4).

EDIT: Clarifications after comment 11 was posted.
EDIT (Jul. 24): Edited to conform to edited comment 1.
EDIT (Feb. 12): Corrected rule citation.
EDIT (May 21, 2020): One rule was renumbered with Core Set 2020.

Quote from Arkmer »

Holy crap... I've been playing her as a legend ever since I saw this card. She just looks legendary... I am embarrassed x7, wow.

I suppose I could still ask if Glen was Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. Granting Undying to the Image as a continuous effect.

Part of your confusion may lie in the card's name: "Glen" can be a first name in real life, but is also a noun describing a land feature. The card's name is "Glen Elendra Archmage", not "Glen Elendra, Archmage", but rather something like "Archmage of the glen Elendra".

In the case of Mikaeus, the legend rule would bring all legendary permanents you control named Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, except one of your choice, into the graveyard (C.R. 704.5j). Assuming you choose the Phantasmal-Image-turned-Mikaeus this way and its undying ability triggers this way, then once undying resolves and you bring Phantasmal Image back to the battlefield as a copy of Renegade Rallier (C.R. 702.92a), its newly gained ability from Renegade Rallier will trigger, since a permanent you controlled (namely the old Phantasmal Image) left the battlefield this turn (C.R. 603.6a-b, 603.4).

EDIT: Clarification after comment 11 was posted.
EDIT (Sep. 28): One rule was renumbered with Ixalan.
EDIT (Nov. 9): Clarification.
EDIT (May 21, 2020): Correctness edit.

So if people are weary of Hogaak's ban potential as soon as two weeks from now, and refuse to buy it in paper to show it off dominating a large GP, then we're just in for yet another period of insufferable misery in Modern?

I remember when "battle of sideboards" was a ban criteria. Now 8 pieces of GY hate in your 75 is supposed to be "normal."

Why do I play this format again? /shrug

Looking with just the name on it without the card preview I thought this is the stoneforged mystic replacement and fixed we all been waiting for

dis gon brek

For some context on Twin: when it was legal, Electrolyze was a playable Magic card. Lightning Bolt killed a lot of relevant things. Remand had a meaningful tempo impact. Graveyards were almost exclusively Tarmogoyf buffs. And the decks which could kill fast (Infect and Burn) got hosed by cards like Electrolyze, Bolt, Tap-Your-Attacker, and Sure-I'll-Block. Nowadays, best fast decks don't care about discard, don't care about removal, don't care about counterspells, and kill faster and more consistently than either of those used to. Sometimes they even do it through many of the targeted pieces of hate we're forced to play.

Meanwhile, a 1/2 that sometimes fetches a 4/4 is banned. Good grief.

Quote from BloodyRabbit_01 »

Utterly dead against the field?

I said ‘while NOT being utterly dead against the field’.

IMHO is simply all about powerlevel in Modern. It went up, I don’t see why denying this.

Oh my bad, I'll leave my mistake as proof of my failure.

As to power level going up, thats undeniable. Has been since Dominaria, noticeably, and huge jumps lately. I dont question if we have not seen a power jump. I question if T3feri is good design, and honestly from a perspective of 'what makes Magic the game it is compared to other CCGs' I think he's absolute dog ***** from a design perspective.

Power level? Sure
Balance? Sure
Design? Bad for the health of the game.

Quote from BloodyRabbit_01 »

I like Teferi’s design, though.

Little Teferi is really bad. Fundamentally changes the game for 3 mana, is absolutely obnoxious design, and even renders creatures without ETB/Haste effects in STANDARD to be useless.

Super bad, I threw him into my Arena decks day one, and just felt gross over what it does to the format and game.

Quote from WizardMN »

First of all, that is super cool. Second, will there be another "Tag Explanation Thread" to go over all the different options each tag offers? Especially if they are different than the current tags?

Absolutely.

There will be two:
One for "these are the basic tags and how they work"
Another for "This is actually everything you can do"

I'm trying to make them as "backwards compatible" as possible, but there will definitely be some that have to change in order to best serve stronger function. For instance, [hr]black[/hr] is what we have here, but [hr] (that's it, no closing tag, etc) will work easier for the average user. We can then add width, color, size, dashed/dotted/solid, etc, to make it a real customizable line for those of us who really want to control the look and feel.

Glad to hear it will continue somewhere else.

The only thing I hope for, is this same format of forum. Not like Reddit, or other sites, but a nice traditional forum.